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Romy the Cat
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Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004
Post #:
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7
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Post ID:
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24838
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Reply to:
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24836
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OK, it is more clear now, thanks to you.
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martinshorn wrote: | Indeed you sound a little racist, but i think we all have our prejudice. |
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I do not think that it is racist
in any way or form. Racism is a prejudice against a race in my case it is prejudice
and historical narrative against a country able/wiling to furnish a certain
class of high-end products.
martinshorn wrote: | I also listened to Cessaro, again this year, multiple
times, and to cut the off-topic short: theyre no good. They lack all dynamics,
colors, beauty. They have no faulty tonality or something obvious, theyre
simply dead and unpleasant. I tried to share my thoughts with the main
representative. He did not care, as all the other arrogant morones on the
exhibition. |
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I have no interest
to defend Cessaro and I in fact never heard them. There are zillions reasons why
they might not sound good but it is not eliminate the fact that Cessaro were
the first topologically-properly made horns.
martinshorn wrote: | The dad is the sponsor,
initiator and CEO. He had many horns, including Goto, Ale, etc. He was not
pleased so asked his son to develop one.
His son is an engineer. As he got deeper into the topic, they
spotted the need to do everything, from DAC down to the horn and driver and all
inbetween.
Theyre doing DAC, preamp, poweramp, fieldcoil-current-unit,
drivers and horns.
He gathered a team of developers, things took a route and so
on.
Now as you throw names, youre actually throwing right
direction, Sam Saye and Bruce Edgar are part of their team. He did design the
horns, and theyre 1:1 according his supervision. The diaphragm are customized
by Truextend which involves Saye as much as the field coil. |
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It
is nice to know. Thanks for sharing the information.
martinshorn wrote: | So first in line, the horns. They
stressed out that particularly the horn flares where not within the comfort
zone of their own developer team. That triggered the recruitment of
Bruce Edgar. The design is only his, and they took it 1:1. |
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I
wonder how the relationship with Bruce was structured. I feel it is very
important. If they used Bruce as a contractor who designed to them horns then
they are not entitled to drum the Mr. Edgar’s name and promote Bruce and some
kind of “founder”. If Bruce is the “shareholder" of the company and have ingoing
participation in the company developed then it is fine but please let Bruce to
vet the marketing BS that they make publicly
available and at present time their on-line presentation sound like they are clueless.
martinshorn wrote: | Now Bruce Edgar advised
to vary the horn shapes depending on their usage. He advised, not like
LeCleach, to have one flare only, but rather use faster opening in the higher
octaves, more narrow in the lower.The fast opening is supposed to be
benefitial for the sound perception in heights. So the upper 3 are tractrix,
with 3 different opening rates or t-factors. The higher the octave, the smaller
the t-rate. The fundamental horn is non tractrix but exponential.
Though, the t-rate is much higher. That lowers the Q of the horn,
and us such, smoothenes the group delay, and together with crossover gives a
lower order roll-off. |
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That is super intelligent and applaud
Mr. Edgar for going in this direction.
martinshorn wrote: | In the base, Bruce chose
to use a 3 meter hyperbolic with even higher t-rate.
Indeed the roll-off balances nicely most room modes and
boominess (i can confirm it was very dry and clean transient in the lows).
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This “dry and clean transient in the lows” when we are talking
about bass hos is something that I very much do not like in bass horns. It is
VERY hard to get there but it is VERY none-musical. It is very impressive
during demonstrations but in my view is very much annoying. Bass need to have fast
transient but to be wet not dry. A dry bass does not provide a proper harmonic support
to lover mid-range. This is the ugly bass that Goto, ALE and the rest of high-flax
drivers produce. There is way to deal with it but I do not see folks are
looking in this direction.
martinshorn wrote: | Bruce Edgar decided to
use the mouth and flare functions collaborating with the driver and crossover,
shaping the final crossover Q's. |
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So, Bruce will be deciding
and designing crossovers for them?
martinshorn wrote: | Now, coming
to the field coil, they had nice ideas.
They were not pleased with soft magnets.But also they
dared to take the Goto apart to measure the flux. I guess no one did that
before, Including Goto themselves. They found to have only 1.6 of the claimed
2.4. Funny enough...
That actually confirms the theory of a buddy i know who sais
according to their material and geometry Goto cannot reach that high tesla.
Doesnt matter, Goto sounds nice, and thats what matters.
But how to get real 2.4 tesla?
So they got Sam on the boat, and just did hugely oversized
field coils.
The saturation clips at 2.2 tesla. |
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I
absolutely do not support this way of thinking and I think to peruse higher
tesla number is very much foolish idea. Why one need to go 2.4T? The T number
is relevant ONLY in context of performance of a specific diaphragm, a specific suspension
type, a specific type of loading, a specific driver range etc… There is absolutely
no need to get max T from an abstract driver.
martinshorn wrote: | What they do, they have one big device that looks
like an amp, that has one individual circuit per driver, so 10 in total (2x5),
for the field coils. Its a current-driven dc-amp. That makes the voltage
variable, but constant current. By that the warmup is eliminated. The
transients are are back to full attack. Theres even an eddy-current flux sensor
integrated with a feedback-loop to the dc-amp that compensates the
flux-modulation. This really kills even the tiniest motor-distortion possibly
left. The next problem in line then was the temperature in this
design. The coils did just melt down. Also they didnt fit the magnet
around the phase-plug, and the throat-tunnel became very long which was
coloring sound.This was solved by 2 steps, one is described later within
the phase-plug part.The other explains why the drivers are so big:
theyre wrapped in coolers. That covers for most circumstances. |
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Ok, the invested in some field-coil investigation,
this is nice. Probably they bought out or licensed the Sam Saye’s
idea, or perhaps brought him aboard. Indeed, there is some complexity to
saturate electro-magnetic force at a very focusing pint and to keep the things
cool enough in order do not introduce dynamic “sinking” as the field-coil getting
hot. One way to do so do not go after crazy amount of Teslas. Different companies resolve the problem differently,
I have no idea why no one go for liquid cooling, it would be so simple and so effective. The variable voltage at electro-magnet
makes me very uncomfortable. If they
still experimenting with it then it is fine but at the final product if much not
be there.
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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