| Search | Login/Register
   Home » Playback Listening » Accuracy vs. Musicality (and YMMV) (128 posts, 7 pages)
  Print Thread | 1st Post |  
Page 7 of 7 (128 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 3 4 5 6 7
03-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,863
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 121
Post ID: 29644
Reply to: 29643
Ars Gratia Artis
I can imagine worse ways to die than falling asleep while listening to Music I enjoy. It sure seems like, if anything "sets us apart" from machines, it's levels of self awareness. Regarding a hi-fi system, I have speculated for some time now that "someone" might "hear all the Music they need to hear" via a Walkman/iPod. How nice for them. So far I have not ascribed Music to my hi-fi, rather I regard my hi-fi as a "tool', a proven-to-me way to access/enjoy Music, such as it is via my hi-fi. I have said for many years that I am not interested in hi-fi apart from Music, and that remains the case for me.

Paul S


04-15-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,863
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 122
Post ID: 29648
Reply to: 29644
Proof of Concept

When it comes to filtering hi-fi promotions, we each have our own gamut to run, starting with generally-untethered “technical” claims, also “attributions” and “associations” aimed at bolstering the “credibility” of the gear and promoter. With these gambits we are typically offered the “reasons” for better sound along with introducing the unimpeachable, wizened elders who nobly brought this stuff to light (and sound). On a good day (for hi-fi promotions), we are finally offered what amounts to a “Proof of Concept” demonstration, where the person or people making the audio presentation offer up something they believe (or simply hope…) “seals the deal”, by letting prospective clients “hear for themselves” what the proffered gear can do in the way of sound and/or music. If you find yourself in this latter situation, try forgetting for a minute the “technical issues” involved in this process and simply ask yourself if this demonstration “works” for you; does it help you to make a determination, whether or not to pursue the proffered gear? Was it the sound or was it the music that moved you? Can you dig deeper about what in particular moved you?  Meanwhile, try to hold on to the thought that however moved you might be, this could be the only time it happens, or it might be that the only way to make it happen again is to basically re-stage the specific event that moved you in the first place. In the end, after money is tendered and the gear finds a new home, we begin again the process of wheedling out of the gear the sound we actually want that allows us the Music we actually want to listen to. If All Went Well, we used our personal aesthetics as guides, filters and gates to sort the gear prior to adopting it, and we also use our aesthetics in setting up and refining the sound and the Music we get from the gear at home. As noted ad nauseum, personal aesthetics certainly play an important role in digesting and refining the experience that shapes the Music experience and the system, alike, if there is more to be gotten from the system than untethered sound and +/- random sound effects. How great for those with aesthetics so finely tuned that they can find what they want irrespective of the delivery system!>>


Paul S

05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,863
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 123
Post ID: 29713
Reply to: 29648
Can Music Survive Hi-Fi?

Yes, Music can live through hi-fi, as I know from my own experience. But I’m the “Degree Guy”, after all, so I will qualify this afirmation by saying it appears to me that the system developer-and-user might or might not get more than they understand of Music or level 1 sound at any point during system development-or-use. While this (ironically) means that someone might actually get Music or Hi-Fi (or both) from a non-personalized system (something someone else developed), this is the serendipity we talk about around these parts, and the lucky guy is also ripe for a letdown; at least this is so when the lucky guy does not understand the relationships between Sound and Music and Gear and Implementation, not to mention Aesthetics, which are always personal, in terms of results. Succinctly, if it isn’t repeatable, it’s random, and if it’s random, then what is it, anyway? Sure, there are plenty of examples where nobody is concerned or motivated by these thoughts. But one has to wonder that someone has read this far if this is the case for them. Anyone?>>


Paul S

05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 494
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 124
Post ID: 29714
Reply to: 29713
Huge topic
After we have bought and installed a system (regardless of the care taken), the results from that system (regardless of overall quality) are no longer random for us as we acclimate and are creatures of habit. The only way to "randomize" the playback results is to manipulate our response to stimuli. In a primitive way, taking a long hot shower before listening can relax us and allow for better reception of "detail", driving a couple of hours through big city traffic would tend to lower our sensitivity.

My own story as a performing musician has more entry options for manipulation - but not necessarily any increased need to use them. I retired in January and do spend more time with a score when I am listening. This visual causes my focus during playback to shift based on expectations arising by recognizing patterns in composition - essentially making my playback completely random but my level of satisfaction with the ritual much greater.

So, my answer is that music can certainly survive HiFi because the ears that appreciate musical results will also be able find the aural clues and excitement in playback. Now, one could question if random listeners not looking for a "musical experience" could get drawn into a playback performance. My experience with this would cause me to say NO! Many of those random listeners are actually disturbed by playback that draws attention to itself. It can be interpreted to be an ATTACK on their conciousness, something they do not know how to handle. I do have many such discussions with my wife who more or less is perfectly content with music only in the background and has a low tolerance level for "challenging performances". She does not get in the way of my serious listening but has no interest in taking part (or keeping her mouth shut when she does happen to be in the room).


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,469
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 125
Post ID: 29717
Reply to: 29713
It is not a conspiracy. It is a stupidity
Well, the problem is that audio and music are completely different entities that are not related to each other. In my view, any audio practitioner or reviewer who insists that they understand the relationship between audio and music is simply deceiving themselves, because they have no idea what they are talking about, and they unfortunately spread nonsense to others, advocating that excessive listening experiences are directly related to specific aspects of audio. I have heard thousands of comments from all kinds of people trying to convince me that certain presumed spiritual movements after listening to their playback had a direct relationship to plate current or the height of a cable elevator. Ironically, plate current and the height of cable elevators do have a very distinct, identifiable signature, but the value of this sonic signature is completely misunderstood by the overwhelming majority of people. The sad reality is that some purely audio methods might indeed have an impact on how our psyche recognizes musical events and might help expedite certain mechanisms of the listening experience. But I have seen very few convincing examples of this in public listening settings. Mostly, people just immunize themselves against buyer’s remorse and, after a certain period of time, it becomes disgusting to me.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N.B.C.


Posts 67
Joined on 02-14-2025

Post #: 126
Post ID: 29719
Reply to: 29717
Pragmatism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta

I'm not saying you 'have to' simply spend twenty-minutes grokking all of this philosophical theory while on a small dose of incinerated cannabis that your individual mind and body is 'comfortable' with, and then making it pragmatically real.


Neil


05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,863
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 127
Post ID: 29720
Reply to: 29714
Appreciation
Easy to loop through the Aesthetics vs. Level 1 vs. Music "relationship", which is in quotes because the "amounts and proportions of each aspect" are variable, in terms of what we are talking about, in individual cases. If there are "no aesthetics" involved, then - literally - nothing matters. Of course, this is not what we're talking about. Imagine a car radio with poor AM reception. How bad does it have to get before "the Music is gone"?  If there are "no level 1 demands", then no need to read here. If there are, what are they? That's where personal aesthetics can serve as a guide in building a system. The fact that our technical knowledge and implementation are wanting makes it "interesting". The idea of what Romy said about buyer's remorse is also true, and there might be many and variable reasons for it, along the lines of the first sentence of this post. Lying to oneself is common enough, for Myriad reasons, and no reason hi-fi would be exempt from this. Just thickens the goo we can get stuck in.

Paul S
05-07-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,469
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 128
Post ID: 29721
Reply to: 29719
Oy. Vey!
 N.B.C. wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta

I'm not saying you 'have to' simply spend twenty-minutes grokking all of this philosophical theory while on a small dose of incinerated cannabis that your individual mind and body is 'comfortable' with, and then making it pragmatically real.
Neil
Nail, you do not exactly understand what people are saying to you. If you find that listening to different versions of audio while you are high makes you happy, then that is wonderful for you. But it has absolutely nothing to do with advanced audio reproduction techniques, because you have failed to demonstrate that it is specifically the audio methods that impact your psychological state. You were trying to say something in your commentary when you attempted to describe yourself, but you have overused AI so much that your expression has lost all meaning.


I have been using AI lately to write my messages because, if I try to write them myself, even I do not fully understand what is that fuck I wrote myself. However, every single phrase that I put under my name, using AI as a spell checker, is something I can stand behind and explain in my own words. I asked you to explain, in your own words, what you are trying to say, and you ignored it. I can assure you that without your explanation, any person on Earth will ignore your messages because they are meaningless. I understand that they may have meaning to you, but as a Taoist master, you need to ask yourself why you are doing this.

I am not trying to be negative toward you. I am trying to show you that, so far, what you publish is not audio exploration, but rather the journey of a person who is high and trying to justify an unconscious state of existence. If you want to add meaning to it, it is your responsibility to provide that meaning, and if you insist on sharing it, then it is your responsibility to make others understand—especially when they explicitly explain to you why they do not. It is up to you. If you keep your creative output confined to this specific thread, you will not have any administrative actions from me.

At the last and the very important part that you do not understand yourself so far, If what you are describing is all that you do with audio then I'm absolutely assure you That anything that you do has absolutely nothing to do with musicality.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 7 of 7 (128 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 3 4 5 6 7
Home Page  |  Last 24Hours  | Search  |  SiteMap  | Questions or Problems | Copyright Note
The content of all messages within the Forums Copyright © by authors of the posts