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  »  New  AMR PH-77: just another phonostage or more?..  Oh, yeah... the sound of the Thing Itself......  Analog Playback Forum     11  126922  07-05-2009
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  »  New  The tales of two phonostages: Allnic and 834PT...  The tales of two phonostages: Allnic and 834PT....  Analog Playback Forum     0  22391  12-21-2011
09-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 221
Post ID: 18569
Reply to: 18568
Shall I co?
fiogf49gjkf0d
So I ordered a Shallco switch from Nebraska:

http://www.surplussales.com/Switches/SWRotaryAll-1.html

According to some gurus at diyaudio.com endless Blowjob preamp thread,
it seems to be the best human invetion after sliced bread.
Let's see. If it's audible at the SUT secondary, it can always go to source selector
up the chain, giving a whopping possibility to choose from 11 sources.

What made me go for it rather than TKD is...i) price...ii) tkd is closed, but does not seem
to be sealed, so I wont be able to clean/lubricate it or adjust the brush tension
iii) recommendation: there seem to be much less feedback on TKD switches than their pots/attenuators,
contrary to shallco/seiden








Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
09-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 222
Post ID: 18570
Reply to: 18569
Parts
fiogf49gjkf0d
TKD has also high quality Parts which are not listed in the catalogue. I heard, some personal contact can be helpful to get their best units. They will be built on custom order only, in batches, when they made it, it is done. Price, well, when you have to ask ....
But DIY groups are able to design the ultimate Phono Stage in the size of a cigarette box. No big deal for them.


Kind Regards
Stitch
09-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 223
Post ID: 18573
Reply to: 18567
I do not, it sounds interesting but…
fiogf49gjkf0d
I do not, it sounds interesting but as anything that come from that forum it more looks like mutual dick sucking then exposition of subject. This Syntax guy in reality says nothing. There is no schematic but just his explanation with some very questionable commentaries. It is not even know if it fully active or SUT design and what the topology of filtration. So, I do not erectly know what it is, what kind people are behind and how much value in all of it.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 224
Post ID: 18574
Reply to: 18570
What does it mean?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Stitch wrote:
TKD has also high quality Parts which are not listed in the catalogue. I heard, some personal contact can be helpful to get their best units. They will be built on custom order only, in batches, when they made it, it is done. Price, well, when you have to ask ....


This is EXACTLY the bullshit I wanted to avoid and never touch...hermetical circles...special orders...dick sucking....fuck off!
As I understand you are not able to comment on the switch nor on its performance in your radar?
It is also not about price--but about performance for a given price. I'd pay 200Eu for a switch knowing it's up to
the task and this "up" will last substancial time. IN this situation of lack of information---lost money.
I can make you a switch out of unobtanium-suck-my-dickium for 20000 Eu, so what? If nobody knows if it switches
well or not apart from a closed circle of a few who did suck my cock and said it was tasty?



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
09-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 225
Post ID: 18575
Reply to: 18574
Come on!
fiogf49gjkf0d
 N-set wrote:
This is EXACTLY the bullshit I wanted to avoid and never touch...hermetical circles...special orders...dick sucking....fuck off!
As I understand you are not able to comment on the switch nor on its performance in your radar?
It is also not about price--but about performance for a given price. I'd pay 200Eu for a switch knowing it's up to
the task and this "up" will last substancial time. IN this situation of lack of information---lost money.
I can make you a switch out of unobtanium-suck-my-dickium for 20000 Eu, so what? If nobody knows if it switches
well or not apart from a closed circle of a few who did suck my cock and said it was tasty?
N-set,

Why are you so impressionable? TKD does build to custom order, so many other companies.  The fact that it is build to custom order and cost a lot does not mean that it is something super-wonderful but it very much might be so. Why do you feel a need to make a judgment about it? Somebody made some kind of phonostage and used some kind custom switch. Does their success or failure affect you? I do not think so. If so why does anybody need you judgment on the subject? It would be nice to see the schematic and the to learn what Syntax was trying to do but in the end he made it for himself and he perfectly in his right to appreciate what he did if it fulfill his demands.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
09-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 226
Post ID: 18576
Reply to: 18575
Is it because secrecy gains females loud applause?
fiogf49gjkf0d
There is absolutely no judgement on my side if you read carefully. Omnigone can be a stellar performer, as well as TKD custom switches which you can have only if you suck the dick of the owner, and it affects me as much as an alien fart on andromeda. I'd actually be happier knowing it does perform on the stratospheric level, which means this is possible.
Custom built parts--no problem with that either, I've been ordering custom parts for ages, comming from the street to the company of my choice and asking "can you do this at this level?". What pissess me off is the aura of "secrecy", "knowing the right people", "entering the right circles" etc etc...where at the end there is NO objective information on the quality of your custom order for which you've been made to pay your two year income apart from pissings of your group-buy fellows. At the moment I'm waiting for that Shallco switch to arrive and I'll experiment with it, so the switch subject is at the moment closed for me.



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
09-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 227
Post ID: 18577
Reply to: 18573
It's A Big'un, All Right
fiogf49gjkf0d
I would also like to know more about this behemoth than the "What is Best?" proclamation tells.

Meanwhile, I keep thinking that another "all-out" approach might be much smaller, with discrete circuits and a large-enough battery (or batteries).  Why not?

Paul S
09-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 228
Post ID: 18579
Reply to: 16908
EAR polite recess
fiogf49gjkf0d
As for the EAR834 Air itself, while calibrating I've noticed I always get a a delicate MF recess, no matter what I do:

calibration_blue.jpg

(neverming the HF roll-off--it's my cheap card, I'll scan it with SG505-HP400FL when I mount them)

Can it be that this slight recess is in part responsible for the "politeness'' of the design?
Can it also be that a more aggressive cart in this context means (in some part) a cart with a slight rise in this region
to compensate? I'll try to find out in about a month trying to tame a Decca Jubilee...
 



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
10-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 229
Post ID: 18690
Reply to: 18579
Power sequencing?
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have one problem, probably trivial: when I shut the power off, the HV dies out much longer than the filaments,
so the cathodes are poisoned at the switch off (on the startup I have a delay relay on HV).
And this despite all that heavy bleeding on HV. How do you deal with such things?



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
10-04-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 230
Post ID: 18691
Reply to: 18690
Some Sort of Off-Only HV Shunt?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, cathode poisoning becomes an issue...  I did not refer back to the schematic, but could you rig a more direct ground path/shunt via relay at switch-off to dump the tubes' HV faster (fast enough) without blowing your caps (or arcing)?

Paul S
10-05-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 438
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 231
Post ID: 18692
Reply to: 18690
3 Position switch
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have built a fair amount of tube gear and use a 2 pole 3 position switch to solve this. Up is off, middle is filament only and down adds HV. A red and green LED show that power is to the heaters and HT.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
10-05-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 232
Post ID: 18693
Reply to: 18692
How true...
fiogf49gjkf0d
...I tried to operate with one switch only but unless I employ what Paul suggests, 3 pos switch (I prefer rotary)
is the easiest solution...thanks guys!



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
10-05-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 233
Post ID: 18694
Reply to: 18693
DIY Failsafe
fiogf49gjkf0d
Of course, the object is to be sure you never have a situation where HV is on while heaters are off, whether switching "on" or "off".  And the usual DIY way to do this with totally separate PSs is...separate switching.  If this or a similar approach is used, I certainly recommend the color-coded pilot lights, all right!  Hell, under these conditions, with my ADHD, I'd need some sort of alarm as a backup! Might be a good idea to have the pilot lights even on a fancier, relay circuit, just to be sure everything is functioning as planned, every time.

Another uber-switch approach (that I have not built...) might be staged MOVs in and out, apropos.  This would probably still require shunt relay or relays; a LV-triggered relay (from the heaters) for the HV for "on", and a "reverse" HV relay (from the HV shunt...) for the heaters (for "off")... 

Best regards,
Paul S
10-30-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rogier
Posts 13
Joined on 11-15-2006

Post #: 234
Post ID: 18698
Reply to: 18693
Switch..
fiogf49gjkf0d
..or 2 DPDT switches, one of each sections parallel for the heater, second of each in series for the plates..

kind regards,  rogier
11-24-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 235
Post ID: 18771
Reply to: 7504
Calibration problem
fiogf49gjkf0d
Experimenting with Decca carts, I've temporaly disconected the SUT's and decided to check the RIAA calibration
and I think I have some (circuit?) problem.

 Romy the Cat wrote:

In the end of everything I was able to get very nice response. The response is nice and flat with 0dB at 18.1Hz and 0dB at 15.600Hz. It has plus 0.2dB from 1500 to 3500 which I feel is not a big deal. (Juts for my future reference: the values of the feedback capacitors have without de-soldering capS from the circuit are: 110pF= 136.2pF and 330pF=372pF)

This level of calibration is something I can dream of, as well as of this one (Fig. 1):

http://www.stereophile.com/content/ear-834p-phono-preamplifier-measurements

I have a massive +2.2dB  peak around 35-50Hz. No matter what I do it's there, getting broader or narrower and slightly moving.

From 1kHz up I can flatten the things out very nicely. I scan the phono using (HF corrected) Hagtech iRIAA.

Since Jim mentions it wants to see 50R source, I've been driving it with 50R out of Tek SG505 generator

or with my sound card with unknown output R....all gives the same. I somehow start to suspect that I have

some circuit problem. I tried to measure aircaps in the circuit but my simple C-meter gets crazy and prefer not to desolder them

unless necessary. The big cap responsible for LF looks actually identical to Romy's and should give up to 390pF, so plenty of room.

Anyone have any idea what the heck may be wrong? Where does a ~50Hz low Q peak may come from?

Any help appreciated. Thanks,

N-set

PS There is one circuit change wrt the original: I use 1uF instead of 2uF output coupling cap.








Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
11-27-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 236
Post ID: 18781
Reply to: 18771
Resolved
fiogf49gjkf0d
Fucking soundcard...I knew I should rather buy myself a good bottle of wine if I cannot afford a real equipment, but I got seduced by
the "simplicity" of mesurements and price...well, I got what I paid for: ~16k input impedance of my Fuck-blaster X-fuck soundcard
was creating an artificial corner together with the 834's output coupling cap. This, put into the
feedback loop, resulted in the unremovable peak at 35Hz. I first found that by simulating the circuit, so, yes
computers are usefull sometimes. It was then a pleasure to use my Tek SG505 + HP400FL to calibrate
the phono. I got a nice quite flat curve within +/-0.25dB up to ~15kHz.
Then I have -0.8dB @20kHz and -3dB@45kHz, which corresponds to the action of the 50kHz time-constant implemented
in the Hagtech's iRIAA. Below is the simed FR of 834, driven by the 600R iRIAA source with the 50kHz corner:

834_sim_FR_50Khz.jpg

Cheers,
n-set

 



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
11-28-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 237
Post ID: 18783
Reply to: 18781
Looks good
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, this is what I expected. That slightly fatty lower range is what I have and I do tend to like this type of response.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-28-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 238
Post ID: 18785
Reply to: 18783
Fat LF
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Yes, this is what I expected. That slightly fatty lower range is what I have and I do tend to like this type of response.


Thanks Romy.
Yes, it seems intrinsic in the design. 
The above curve is simulation, but I get it almost perfectly in the real life too
(with SUTs disconnected and using REAL instruments, not computer crap).
Looking forward to see how 834 will interact with Decca Jubilee in 3012R...


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
11-28-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,570
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 239
Post ID: 18787
Reply to: 18785
Loading Up
fiogf49gjkf0d
N-set, you've certainly earned the right to enjoy your gear!  Again, which SUT will you use? No practical way to measure ESR, etc. on this, I suppose...

When you first posted on the "problem" curve, I was thinking (to myself...) "RCL"/reactive load.  Of course, SUT is an added "variable", but I know of no better way to get the gain; maybe pony up for Boulder 2008.  The "fat" curve is generally in the end more like "live", I think.

Best regards,
Paul S
11-28-2012 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 240
Post ID: 18788
Reply to: 18787
SUT's
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Paul S wrote:
N-set, you've certainly earned the right to enjoy your gear!  Again, which SUT will you use? No practical way to measure ESR, etc. on this, I suppose...


Paul, the SUT's are Pieter's Tribute MkII.
I could measure this or that on the SUT's but I trust Pieter and the only thing I've done was a
freq. sweep up to 100kHz (again with a proper equipment).
It seems to show no irregularities (I have some little doubts at ultra low levels<1mV, but this may be RFI),
so I plan to try unloading the secondaries (they are moderately loaded at 82.5k right now)
and try loading the cart through the primaries...but that later.

Right now the SUT's are disconnected
as I'm experimenting with Decca carts, so I'll try to post my observations on the sound afterwards.
The only thing I can say at the moment is
that changing the ratio from 1:20 to 1:10 on Tribute's brought, in my modest circumstances,
the sound of the front-end to a different level, uncovering a whole layer of a vital sonic information.

Cheers,
N-set





Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
Page 12 of 16 (311 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 10 11 12 13 14 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Where are our good phonostages?..  Omnigon Tubes...  Analog Playback Forum     61  638407  05-31-2004
  »  New  The Expressive Technologies SU-1..  “too bright” or “resolution” or “details” with SUT prim...  Analog Playback Forum     33  361525  12-30-2004
  »  New  EAR 834P Modification Guide..  The cap will not change volume in the pass band...  Analog Playback Forum     45  615949  02-09-2006
  »  New  My Analog Playback: the fat lady has sung..  My analog setup update....  Analog Playback Forum     9  115160  04-04-2006
  »  New  Phono stages with SU-1..  SU-1...  Analog Playback Forum     4  63752  11-23-2007
  »  New  Chasing utopian better phono interconnect...  Did I miss something?...  Analog Playback Forum     6  106898  06-05-2008
  »  New  Buying a last cartridge...  Lucky you...  Analog Playback Forum     80  779386  09-05-2008
  »  New  EAR 834P mods..  The cap will not change volume in the pass band...  Analog Playback Forum     45  615949  11-04-2008
  »  New  AMR PH-77: just another phonostage or more?..  Oh, yeah... the sound of the Thing Itself......  Analog Playback Forum     11  126922  07-05-2009
  »  New  An interesting Russian pnonocorrector...  Uber-tweeky phono topologies deconstructed...  Analog Playback Forum     9  95071  03-01-2010
  »  New  Expressive Technologies SU-1 and cartridge output and i..  MV and Ohms...  Analog Playback Forum     2  31925  07-07-2011
  »  New  How to run MM-type cartridge into MC phonostage?..  Quite interesting....  Analog Playback Forum     6  64081  11-13-2011
  »  New  The tales of two phonostages: Allnic and 834PT...  The tales of two phonostages: Allnic and 834PT....  Analog Playback Forum     0  22391  12-21-2011
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