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  »  New  Where the FM quality comes from?..  Freaking ridicules…...  Off Air Audio Forum     22  128708  11-02-2005
  »  New  How to record FM broadcasts...  Left to center...  Off Air Audio Forum     125  785376  11-04-2005
  »  New  “FM live” file exchange service...  IP ramifications...  Off Air Audio Forum     19  92856  10-14-2006
  »  New  Where are our good Tuners?..  Ok, it did clear the things up....  Off Air Audio Forum     43  280184  03-31-2008
  »  New  FM and live real-time broadcast experience...  There is something else with FM...  Off Air Audio Forum     2  19662  05-13-2008
  »  New  My today’s views on LP culture and my audio habits...  Russian duo-pianists Vitya Vronsky and Victor Babin pla...  Analog Playback Forum     24  105006  08-18-2008
  »  New  Live memories of Live broadcasts..  Live memories of Live broadcasts...  Playback Listening  Forum     0  7831  12-16-2008
08-20-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 1330
Reply to: 1330
The best audio source EVER!

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I do not know why people are fighting, arguing and spend money and time in search and improving of for better sources for audio playbacks.  I listen to edgy and mechanical digital, to amorphous and temporarily tapes, to the tacky and fastidious LP, to metallic and provisionally 78s and again and again I catch myself with a conclusion that real reproduced music comes only from FM “live” broadcasts.

If you live within a location with a good reception quality of a fine classical FM radio station and if you have a reasonable tuner then you able get out of FM the quality, and consequentially listening experiences, that are unmatched by any other media. Yes, there is NOTHING in audio that can much a listening experience of  a “live” FM Broadcast!

A “live” Broadcast is obsolete Mecca of sound reproduction. The definition of “audio quality” itself has very different appearance during the “live” Broadcasts and many of the bogus things that we artificially invented in audio juts do not exist while we are experiencing “lives” Broadcast.  The time is hanging in air and the immediacy of the moment becomes a strong catalyzer of the performing event. Something certainly happens with our awareness when we feel that the event is “live”. This little pose after the announcing, then they turn of microphone… and suddenly room is filling with absolutely tangible “presents of event” and your own cooperation with the event. There is no sound yet, but already there is smell, taste and the feel of own participation in the ceremony of creationism…

We in Boston are really spoiled with WHRB, WGBH, WBOQ, WCRB and so. The “live” broadcasts from MET and form our local orchestras are wonderful; thanks God out local orchestra become tolerable. I’m sure that there are many folks out there who live within the good classical FM. The good tuners and good antennas cost nothing nowadays. Go FM! This is a really ultimate and everlasting source to bring music in your home. You will save a LOT of money from Symphony Hall’s trips and get for your playback a source that will force  you to look again at the value of pre-caned music.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-20-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-15-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 1333
Reply to: 1330
Re: The best audio source EVER!
Thanks for the wise advice Romy. I'm curious to know if you have ever recorded those broadcasted live events. I guess you've done for sure but I'd like to know if you've found open reel, cassette, CD-R or any other recording method most suitable to preserve those feelings the on line broadcast can convey for you.

It's a pity that over here we don't have any decent classical station, and the two ones that rarely broadcast live events, usually screw up sound and life from the event.

brgrds

AJ
08-25-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 1348
Reply to: 1330
Amazing!

It is amazing how much lives in the FM broadcasts. Just now the WHRB transmitted in their “Tuesday-Thursday ’s Nights” the Radio Amsterdam’s broadcast of the Royal Concertgebouw with Bernard Natick played the Debussy’s “La Mer” and Shostakovich’s 8Th Symphony. They are both the peaces that I would hardly listen under normal circumstances – they just not “my” music. However, these time the Concertgebouw “did it” to me. They play Shostakovich amazingly beautiful and intelligent without the typical ‘kovich vulgarity, that actually made this Symphony for a first time to have some sense to me.  Also, on the different note,  the wildness and openness of the Concertgebouw’s Concert Hall combined with astonishingly stunning ability of Sansui TU-X1 to throw phenomenal “SPACE” made any other media I can play in my room a real mockery of sound reproduction. I hate to admit it but I will pick a few Shostakovich’s 8th… who would believe!!!

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-26-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 1350
Reply to: 1348
Re: Amazing!

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As it happens, I tuned in on the second half of the Eighth and couldn't recognize the music for a while, it was so astonishingly well- and differently- played. I've asked around and no one I know recorded it. Pity.

As always, for the greatest music -- you had to be there!

clark
08-26-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 1351
Reply to: 1350
Yep, it was superb!

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 clarkjohnsen wrote:
As it happens, I tuned in on the second half of the Eighth and couldn't recognize the music for a while, it was so astonishingly well- and differently- played. I've asked around and no one I know recorded it. Pity.
Yep,
 
after the second movement I felt sorry that I did not recorder it. But I did not have a recorder ready to set-up the Nak would take a few minutes that I did not wanted to loose from the listening. I have on my shelves plenty of Bernard Natick doing his “20s century music” but whatever he did before was nothing compare to what he showed up yesterday!

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-22-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
dazzdax
Netherlands
Posts 32
Joined on 10-22-2005

Post #: 6
Post ID: 1549
Reply to: 1351
Re: Yep, it was superb!
Romy, fortunately I live nearby Amsterdam (the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra's home), so I'm quite familiair with the Concertgebouw's acoustics. The Philips recordings made in the late 60's and during the 70's with Bernard Haitink and Colin Davis sound great, because they give a good impression of the Concertgebouw's acoustics. I agree that a FM live broadcast is very good indeed. Regarding to Shostakovich 8th, the Gergiev/Kirov/Philips rendering of this piece is also excellent.

Chris
10-22-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 1554
Reply to: 1549
Rob Sibie?

Chris,

If you live there and do something with audio… then did you know Rob Sibie?

Rgs,
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-23-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
dazzdax
Netherlands
Posts 32
Joined on 10-22-2005

Post #: 8
Post ID: 1555
Reply to: 1554
Re: Rob Sibie?

No, I don't think I know him. Is he a fellow audiophile or a designer?

Chris

10-28-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 1600
Reply to: 1330
FM delivers a major blow again!

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This became really insulting: the FM broadcasts from a consumer quality radio delivery in my listening room the level of audio quality at absolutely unmatched level.

I’m not kidding. The Sansui TU-X1 that I use is a consumer machine made without any so-called high-end-proved parts: the cheapest caps, cheapest indictors, cheapest resistor, cheap power supplies and so on. I use very ordinary room-located antenna, listing basically in a basement (!) of downtown of a major industrial city (!!!). The Sansui was not modified: juts bypassed the output attenuators. So, where this magnificent level of musicality  AND audio quality is coming from and particularly if the guys at the radios station play the music materials from the cheapest possible sources?

Anyhow, I do not know if it was the FM itself or the tuner unit but if you have change to buy, steal or borrow this TU-X1 then do it whatever it takes and whatever it cost. The funny part is that the TU-X1 is saving me a LOT of money as, believe me or not, but since I brought it home I bought much less music then I use to, however I listen much more then I use to.

FM, rules, literally!

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-31-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 1624
Reply to: 1600
Another FM mystery!

Last weekend the electricity here in Boston during a day way quite miserable. I mean really-really miserable, making sound compressed but in the same time aggressive and harsh and converting violins info scratchy torturing mashies. However, what whatever mystery reasons this effect did not spread to the FM sound. Well, if kind of mildly did affect FM making it more compressed then usually but it was no aggressiveness and no ferociousness. Quite in contrary it was as usually very soft and very “elastic”.

This quality of FM compare to out CD and LP is really keep insulting me…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-06-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 11
Post ID: 2910
Reply to: 1330
FM as a subject of suffering.....

It looks like the best “audio source EVER” begin to get less shiny. I being to observe that the FM classical stations that I ordinary listen got substantially noisier over the last year. It might be because the stations begun to add digital high definition components to their broadcast frequencies. I am not familiar with HD FM and never heard it but it looks like my analog FM is a subject of suffering and degradations… Very unfortunate….

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-06-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-15-2004

Post #: 12
Post ID: 2911
Reply to: 2910
Here it keeps going very well
over here. By now there's no HD FM and digital radio uses other frequencies. My pity is that I only have ONE good classical station, but it still puzzles me how it can sound so good. Probably it has to do with compression. Once they broadcasted a concert that I happened to have also in CD. No contest, FM was more ..... well... enjoyable.

rgrds,
A.
07-19-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 13
Post ID: 7839
Reply to: 1330
The FM as a window to music.

I was wondering how different would be my audio habits if I “discover” the FM in Boston earlier. I lived in Boston for a few years and did not acknowledge the highly available wonderful word of FM broadcast. I think that if I “FM-wake up” early in the mid of 90s when I just moved in Boston from Philadelphia then the profile of my playback system would be much different. I have somewhere near 1.5K CDs, probably near 15K records, a few hundred tapes, the evolved means to play CD, LPs, Tapes and so on… With my today’s views, if I started today from very beginning then I would probably would not built up the other means to get music beside FM.  Probably the ideal playback would have a very good amplification, very good acoustic system, as good as possible tuner and recording options. The LP, CD, Tape options probably would be not as extend as I have now. I do appreciate an opportunity to play CD and LP with better result but how much efforts I shell spend for LP and CD playback if FM makes over 80% of my listening?

TheBestAudioSourceEVER.jpg

The diversity, the quality (sonic and artistic) of FM is truly overwhelming, leaving practically no time or interests for other avenues to “get music”. For instance the WGBH last month transmits live-to-tape recordings from different Music Festivals around the world. They are the local Massachusetts festivals, the US festivals as well as the recording of Europeinian Radio Broadcasting. Some of that festival performances are remarkably good and those moments of the chamber groups or individual artists I would hardly ever find on the “industry sponsored” CDs.

For instance during the last few weeks the WGBH broadcast the highlights from:

Ambronay Festival
Rockport Chamber Music Festival
Yellow Barn Music Festival
The Newport Music Festival
Warsaw International Piano Festival
Aspen Music Festival
Rockport Chamber Music Festival
Cape Cod Chamber Music Festival
Prague Autumn Festival
Lugano Festival
Schleswig-Holstein Music Festival
Kingston Chamber Music Festival
Montreal Chamber Music Festival
Boston Early Music Festival
Monadnock Music Festival
SoHIP Summer Festival
Tucson Winter Chamber Music Festival

BTW, today in UK the Proms Festival is opening:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2008/whatson/season/

The FM will  not be syndicated in US as far as I know, and usually Proms do not have too refine artistic quality but they do live web podcast and it will be a wonderful in-office listening.

So, I perfectly can see an extremely elaborate and highly capable audio installation that uses only an FM tuner as audio source. At least if I start from scratch then I would most likely go for this direction.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-19-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 14
Post ID: 7840
Reply to: 7839
Highlights

The idea has always been to get at a wide selection of the best available music whenever you want, right?  How nice for you that your available FM stations actually deliver on that score.

For some time, I've basically thought of my system as the least means to acceptable ends, with the ends being great music, to the point where I have been willing to compromise performance to get some comfort during development and use.  So far, vinyl delivers the best fix, then CD.  Sure, FM might beat CDs IF it was consistently good here; rather, it is consistently bad in terms of both program and broadcast quality, so no practical sense in going overboard for the odd gems.

But the kicker for FM, of course, is the programming.  I have maybe 2,000 LPs, and only a few CDs, so my surprises are limited to what I can mine from the best performances I am +/- familiar with, or I can pay my money and take my chances on new material that often as not winds up like the Rosbaud Debacle (qv).

Basically, you just can't beat FM for the wonderful element of surprise, which is probably the ultimate kick, IMO.

Best regards,
Paul S

07-19-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
clarkjohnsen
Boston, MA, US
Posts 297
Joined on 06-02-2004

Post #: 15
Post ID: 7841
Reply to: 7840
The "Rosbaud Debacle"?
Help!

clark
07-19-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 16
Post ID: 7843
Reply to: 7841
Not FM
Clark, if you insist, look at "Foo-foo Mozart" under the More Gieseking header, Music Discussions.

I would love for someone to explain to me that in fact it's good...  but then, I suppose, he'd better also explain WHY it's good...

BTW, and germane to this FM thread, I would be lucky to hear any whole concerto broadcast locally.  Our one +/- dedicated "classical" staition broadcasts from Tijuanna, not San Diego, and they give "explanations" and "related historical information" briefings that tyupically last longer than the excerpts they play.  Is there anything more annoying than a 10 minute "introduction"/set-up followed by a piece that makes you long for silence?

Best regards,
Paul S
07-20-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 17
Post ID: 7847
Reply to: 7840
The elements of surprise.

Talking about spontaneousness of FM radio... Where else it possible to hear something like this? (a small 3 megs mp3 file)

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=ddefb24e284be68dd2db6fb9a8902bda

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
yoshi
Jefferson (MA), United States
Posts 69
Joined on 05-04-2005

Post #: 18
Post ID: 8021
Reply to: 7847
Insulting FM experience at Romy's
Last night, I got an oppotunity to hear what Romy's been screaming about the quality of FM broadcast.  Yes, it is in an "insulting" level.  The biggest surprise was the harmonic integrity live-broadcasts presents us.  Not only with orchestral works (well, especially with orchestral works), but even with solo piano or violin pieces, the richness and the integrity of harmonics are amazing.  Compared to these live-broadcasts, the other recorded medium (CDs & LPs) sounds more or less like an androids created by chopped body pieces put together by mad scientist.

Is the difference inherent to the recording/mastering process?  I don't know and Romy says he doesn't know either, but if it's mainly the result of the ignorance and stupidity of recording/mastering engineers, they should be hung for the crime against humanity!

On the other hand, I wish it's because of the ignorance and stupidity of recording/mastering engineers, so there's a hope that, someday, a super genius engineer re-masters all the great recordings in the past to the level of live FM broadcasts, or something close to it.

Yoshi
08-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 19
Post ID: 8022
Reply to: 8021
One more ‘got’ the picture.

 yoshi wrote:
Last night, I got an oppotunity to hear what Romy's been screaming about the quality of FM broadcast.  Yes, it is in an "insulting" level.  The biggest surprise was the harmonic integrity live-broadcasts presents us.  Not only with orchestral works (well, especially with orchestral works), but even with solo piano or violin pieces, the richness and the integrity of harmonics are amazing.  Compared to these live-broadcasts, the other recorded medium (CDs & LPs) sounds more or less like an androids created by chopped body pieces put together by mad scientist.

Yoshi, you might partially consider this:

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=8020

Also, I do not agree with you that there is ANY difference in harmonic integrity between my live FM recording and most of the recorded CD/LPs. The harmonic integrity is not something that sets the live FM apart.

 yoshi wrote:
Is the difference inherent to the recording/mastering process?  I don't know and Romy says he doesn't know either, but if it's mainly the result of the ignorance and stupidity of recording/mastering engineers, they should be hung for the crime against humanity!

Well, you begin to sound like me but it is no surprise. I did not demonstrate to you my live FM recordings and then to play the very same performances released commercially on CD. It would be like VERY different music. Yes, one of the advantage of live FM that all that superstructure of idiots-professionals who do “mastering” is left with live broadcasts out of prentices… Also there are no medium problems as the live feed A/D directly on my side, whey I have control and where I do not use barbarian methods to kill sound.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
yoshi
Jefferson (MA), United States
Posts 69
Joined on 05-04-2005

Post #: 20
Post ID: 8023
Reply to: 8022
Integrity of space
Well, my wording may not be right.  What I meant by "integrity of harmonics" is more like "integrity of space where harmonics are presented", which I do not hear in CD/LPs.

Yoshi
Page 1 of 2 (35 items) Select Pages:  1 2 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Where the FM quality comes from?..  Freaking ridicules…...  Off Air Audio Forum     22  128708  11-02-2005
  »  New  How to record FM broadcasts...  Left to center...  Off Air Audio Forum     125  785376  11-04-2005
  »  New  “FM live” file exchange service...  IP ramifications...  Off Air Audio Forum     19  92856  10-14-2006
  »  New  Where are our good Tuners?..  Ok, it did clear the things up....  Off Air Audio Forum     43  280184  03-31-2008
  »  New  FM and live real-time broadcast experience...  There is something else with FM...  Off Air Audio Forum     2  19662  05-13-2008
  »  New  My today’s views on LP culture and my audio habits...  Russian duo-pianists Vitya Vronsky and Victor Babin pla...  Analog Playback Forum     24  105006  08-18-2008
  »  New  Live memories of Live broadcasts..  Live memories of Live broadcasts...  Playback Listening  Forum     0  7831  12-16-2008
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