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  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  921869  07-29-2007
  »  New  Dannoy 2021 Loudspeakers..  It is all bout me....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     24  86012  08-04-2021
  »  New  Bermuda Triangles of Audio..  Tannoy carton issues...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  28959  11-09-2021
03-24-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Edgar=
Posts 53
Joined on 02-13-2021
Post #: 341
Post ID: 28076
Reply to: 28072
Yes, that exact enclosure.
I bought those enclosures from a local old timer who had made them with alot of care. they are heavy! They had a single goodmans driver where you see the Scanspeak now. I swaped it out and installed the Scanspeak and tried different drivers on top. This was before Dannoy and my introduction to THE Scanspeak.
When your Dannoy discovery hit I cut a hole right in the front of the enclosure and bolted the 10" Tannoy in and listened to a LOT of music for days after that. With RI, it was mind blowing. Something very different.
I then pulled the 10s out and glued in 15s. 
The 15 can handle a LOT of amplifier power so that helps in overcoming the limitations of the 10 but it does not sound as good as the 10 in the mid range. Its just not as fast, not as refined and nuanced but still excellent, don't get me wrong.
It's not so much there is any problem, or there is something I don't like, I like it a lot! it's more its a 2 channel system so its never going to be big enough for a main system. Dannoy does have that romantic sound to it but less than a straight up Tannoy. If I were to tire of anything, it would be that but as i'm not relying on this being a primary system, i dont find it a problem.
I am highly satisfied with Dannoy and the lineriazation effect I hear with that configuration. I dont desire more from Dannoy as I'll use it for accoustical spaces that are small and it's a good match for. If i need more than that, well, back to sealed enclosures. 


Now, in saying all that, from what I picked apart this week re Dannoy i do feel that we might be able to decouple the linearization effect from Dannoy, for use in other systems. particularly with higher efficiency drivers that tend to have more cone resonances, It could be very beneficial.
03-24-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Edgar=
Posts 53
Joined on 02-13-2021
Post #: 342
Post ID: 28077
Reply to: 28073
Not potentially a mess
Definitely a mess.   One I would walk away from...
Re RI, you STRICTLY only want to implement rears or the game is off but if you want to talk RI, lets do it in the RI thread.
Re the 10" being too little, think back to the port analogy. What would convention say then about the diameter required for a conventional port? Remembering this 'port' is far more controlled than the mass of air in a conventional port...
03-24-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Warsaw, Poland
Posts 647
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 343
Post ID: 28078
Reply to: 28075
Exactly
 Edgar= wrote:

I think the issue is system power levels not F3. I think The efforts for implementing something under Dannoy is more toeards improving that not so much lowering f3.
Dannoys open bottom end sounds really good. I'd be keen to preserve that but somehow being able to go 3 channels.

Exactly that's the point! More power below some 60Hz not lower f3.

Thanks Edgar for the 15" vs 10" comparison. Btw how big is the space that you use with your Dannoys and how far are you from the speakers?

@ Paul _ I have not tried high passing Dannoys but I feel the feeling will be similar to castration. It is the bass where the magic comes from.

Cheers,
Jarek
03-24-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,887
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 344
Post ID: 28079
Reply to: 28074
Conflation
F3 was not cited as a pivot for improvements, it's just a flag. I'm saying the Tannoy is not the only vintage 10" driver that will not actually do LF, regardless of FS, and a proven way to make the most of these drivers is to +/- relieve them of LF duties. Hell, I currently do the same with my own (very modern) 10" MF. I mean, if you like 10" bass, why NOT try doubled Scanspeaks under high-passed, stand-alone Tannoys before trying something more elaborate and costly? And it might be you would lose no more "LF" by high passing than you do now with the PR. You will never wind up with a power house, but you will very likely gain significant headroom. It's so straightforward and easy (also easily reversable...), I can't believe you have not already tried this...

Paul S
03-24-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,477
Joined on 05-27-2004
Post #: 345
Post ID: 28080
Reply to: 28076
Yep, it is unexpectedly and ridiculously good, have no idea right.
Edgar, I know exactly how you feel. I had once a 15-in driver but I had no use from it. Heard in the multiple installations 15 red, included autograph, but always was destructed bite overly romantic and syrupy presentation. This is why I choose 10 red, because I use it for many years injecting very deliberate amount of syrupiness into Macondo. I actually do not have memory why I suddenly decided towards 10 inch red to the sunspeak.  But I very clearly remember exactly how you described that it for whatever reason took a lot of bed euphoric red driver sound away, and kept only vote in my view should be staying there. As I discovered it it was laughable and shocking and it really turned my head off. I hand my entire systems hitting in the room and I have two dirty and shity boxes with two 10-in holes, driven from B2 and connected with zip wires, and they sounded amazing. I still remember the recordings I played and I exactly remember how they sound. I need to admit the guild. Before I released all of this public I called to a friend of mine who manufactures speakers and I told him about discovery. He did not believe me that it might be good. So, I said fuck you then and printed it publicly. I do not know if your explanation why they sound good is correct. However I feel that the people who manufacture right now speakers using vintage Tannoy drivers should certainly make this experiment and then express their "alid" opinions. I need to admit that if somebody suggests to do it for me I would probably discard the suggest as well but it is what it is.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-24-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Edgar=
Posts 53
Joined on 02-13-2021
Post #: 346
Post ID: 28081
Reply to: 28079
You are right Paul
I have tried it Paul, and more. None of them are as good as Dannoy.
I can see it now, It's the linearization effect the Faraday rings have on the system. That is what other systems do not have. It's like adding a choke to a amplifiers power supply. It's a magnetetic phenomenon. It doesnt really dampene the energy, its spreads it out. It takes the high q system resonances and flattens them out. hence the term linearization.
 
03-24-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Edgar=
Posts 53
Joined on 02-13-2021
Post #: 347
Post ID: 28082
Reply to: 28078
My accoustic space
is about 60m3 or 2000ft3
but with openings to other spaces.
It will never be an ideal acoustic space here so I have not put any significant effort into room treatment. except for RI of course hehe, that is some good room treatment.
The action is defiantly nearfeild but in saying that I have a couch by a window in one of the adjoining spaces and the lower knee loads into that corner better than anywhere. It's a devine place to snooze and soak up some sun.
03-24-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Edgar=
Posts 53
Joined on 02-13-2021
Post #: 348
Post ID: 28083
Reply to: 28080
It is ridiculous
Friend after friend leaves astonished saying how "dialled" the sound is and the system was literally slapped together via the path of least resistance just for proof of concept. Development ended there other than adding 2 more braces to the speaker enclosure. The proof is in the fact that it ended there. If i was not satisfied the configuration would have changed by now or been stripped down and replaced with something else. The irony.
03-25-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,887
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 349
Post ID: 28086
Reply to: 28081
Lord of the Rings
Agree that shorting rings, etc. can be useful; my own dynamic drivers (LF and MF) employ them to good effect. One supposes the overall effects of the SS "PR" with your 15" would be less than Jarek's (10+10), and that you would in any case start with more LF and more drive. Jarek has said specifically that he wants more LF and drive for symphonic music, and this prompted my "recommendations", using a least approach.  Romy did a great job of describing both the benefits and the weaknesses of the Dunnoys, and I tried to consider these descriptions, also my own experience. Sure, it's always a matter of taste and satisfaction; we all like what's good.

Best regards
Paul S
03-26-2025 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Warsaw, Poland
Posts 647
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 350
Post ID: 28089
Reply to: 28083
This n that
 Edgar= wrote:
Friend after friend leaves astonished saying how "dialled" the sound is and the system was literally slapped together via the path of least resistance just for proof of concept. Development ended there other than adding 2 more braces to the speaker enclosure. The proof is in the fact that it ended there. If i was not satisfied the configuration would have changed by now or been stripped down and replaced with something else. The irony.

I did a bit of this n that: changed the xovers to the modern UK ones, then changed the caps to better, stuffed the cabs with mineral wool, bought nice Cu foil speaker cables etc. But admittedly all that was incremental. I want to try a supertweeter, looking to add some more air and spaciousness. I've been hunting Tannoy ST-50 or -25 for that experiment. I have some gut feeling that the dome supertweetrs, rather than horn or ribbon ones, with their wide angular characteristic will be much better for my job.

As for the bass, I think I give up and move to RI experiments. The only thing that comes to mind would be an identical Dannoy but with the HF disconnected and low passed at some 80Hz. This should have the +/- mathing phase response but I'm reluctant to hunt another pair of Reds as it takes forever here.


Cheers,
Jarek
08-22-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Warsaw, Poland
Posts 647
Joined on 01-07-2006
Post #: 351
Post ID: 29807
Reply to: 28089
Old Reds problems
May not be the best moment, but I wanted to share a word of warning for other Red users: The paper cone is prone to a fatigue at the joint to the suspension. One of my drivers developed about 6-7cm long crack in that place. I tried to repair it following the Tannoy guy instructions and chemistry and while the results will be known in few days, close examination of the drivers shows that the paper slowly gives up at the joint to the black surround. I'm contemplating reapplying the original dope there (from Mainly Tannoy) but afraid it might stiffen the suspension. 
Apart from that, the Dannoys + RI are giving me a lot of pleasure. I got the Tannoy ST-50 supertweeters but that was rather a miss than a hit. Despite a careful alignment with RTA,  the only thing they did was to shift the tonal balance towards HF, making it harder. I did not hear any magic, more bass attack etc some people report. Since my wife likes them, I kept them but firing to the back, with the phase reversed.



Cheers,
Jarek
08-23-2026 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,887
Joined on 10-12-2006
Post #: 352
Post ID: 29808
Reply to: 29807
Better Living Through Chemistry
Jarek, this response is mostly to send best wishes to your increased household! As for the 10" reds, it sounds like you have access to experts, to compare to your own ideas. While I do not have much experience with Tannoy Reds, per se, I have something like 100 old drivers, and many of them suffered at my hands as I de- and re-constructed them, trying to figure them out and get the best from them. One thing I learned is, pretty much any change will be audible with the "best sounding" drivers. Small tear repairs might be an exception, if done properly. I wound up using as little as possible archive quality PVA glue and lots of patience, to where repairs are barely visible and totally inaudible. As you know, the surround is a special case. Likely, we have all seen old drivers that have had "professional" surround treatments that "look original" to the driver in question. These treatments do affect the sound, but you might find the changes are acceptable to you, albeit a change in compliance might affect your overall Remedios operating parameters. As for the ST-50, I thought the stock tweeter went right on up there? Where did you cross over, and how fast? Pointing (extra) tweeters away from the listener is an old trick, but what you describe sounds like a simple case of overkill. You may remember a while back, when I recommended older 12" DMTs. Anyway, welcome to Conscious Audio (with a conscience)!
Best regards,
Paul S
Page 18 of 18 (352 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 14 15 16 17 18
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  921869  07-29-2007
  »  New  Dannoy 2021 Loudspeakers..  It is all bout me....  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     24  86012  08-04-2021
  »  New  Bermuda Triangles of Audio..  Tannoy carton issues...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  28959  11-09-2021
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