GoodSoundClub - Romy the Cat's Audio Site - A dedicated line: single phase vs. three phase?

09-25-2013

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rickmcinnis
Posts 59
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #:	1201
Post ID:	20085
Reply to:	20083

What do you think of this production?

I have been tempted to get it but would like to hear what you think of it.
I do not understand the dislike of subtitles. They come in handy when dealing with mumbling actors even speaking one's native language.
Dubbed movies, I understand, are the norm in Russia. Certainly not here. One either gets used to sub-titles or is limited to US and British stuff.
I do not think I have ever watched a dubbed movie that I liked better than the original soundtrack and sub-titles.
Most of the dub actors seem to be reading the lines with little knowledge of what is on the screen.
The first few chapters of that book are incredible. AS it goes along it does tend to veer into silliness (which I think would be impossible to recreate visually). After all is said and done I agree its reputation is deserved. Maybe one would need to experience Soviet life to have a full understanding of the imagery.

09-25-2013

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rickmcinnis
Posts 59
Joined on 10-18-2010

Post #:	1203
Post ID:	20087
Reply to:	20086

Reading?

I had read the book and was aware of this filmed version.
I had not read much good about it and was curious what Romy thought of it.
Seeing the WILD STRAWBERRIES once was enough for me. I did watch the CRITERION release with the sub-titles.
Your Scandinavian blood must make it possible for you to enjoy Bergman. When I need a visual reference for pretension his work quickly comes to mind. I don't "hate" it, for all the hoopla it seems ordinary to me.
I agree that CRITERION does a good job with subtitles.
Hope Mr. Besnow is not annoyed by this film talk!

09-25-2013

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #:	1204
Post ID:	20088
Reply to:	20087

Half-ass but still a solution.

OK, guys, let stop to bite my Master and Margarita hook: this thread is not about all of that but about electricity problems. I brought the Master only as an illustration of some ridicules regarding the PP noise. I spent today another hour, trying to kill the noise. I did try many tikes but looks like nothing worked. Eventually I allocate the problem being my Blue Ray player – with it insertion in system the noise comes and there is looks like no way to get rid of it. Interesting that I had the very same player and it was running for near year with no problem. Then it stopped read the disks and I sent it back to manufacturer – it was under warranty. A month back they returned me another new one and this new unit has the noise. I was patching grounds in all imaginary ways but it looks like it has no result. The same playback but with different CD/DVD player is absolutely silent. Eventually I was able to kill the noise but running in isolation transformer between the Blue Ray player and PP2000. It is not kosher solution but it works and just decided to declare the player faulty. The player has just 2 power contacts and something inside they did wrong. Frankly I have intention to investigate it further. The patch with transformer worked. I would not tolerate it in my main system but in opera room it is fine.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

09-25-2013

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steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-22-2009

Post #:	1206
Post ID:	20090
Reply to:	20088

Curious

Romy: I spent today another hour, trying to kill the noise. ... Eventually I allocate the problem being my Blue Ray player – with it insertion in system the noise comes and there is looks like no way to get rid of it.

Are you saying that the Blu Ray emits a hum whether plugged into the wall or into the PP? Or Only when it is connected to the PP? I assume the DVD player mentioned in post 1199 is different than the Blu Ray mentioned above.

09-26-2013

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #:	1207
Post ID:	20091
Reply to:	20090

Yes, this is kind of strange.

Yes, this is kind of strange. This is a cheap Blue Ray player; I think it is Sony BDP-S790 for $279. It played anything and supports live stream for pretty much anything. It is very comfortable to have it in opera room as video source. The picture is fine with it, sound is so-so. The OPPO that I had before was a loner and it was better but it did not do steaming. This Sony is small plastic piece of crap but it does the job. I never owned any component that cost under $300, so it is kind of entertaining. From another perspective I think that all out contemporary high-end digital devised shall cost $300, do you think the intestines that we have in $15K player today are different from mass consumer device that costs nothing? Anyhow, that is a tangential subject.

So, the played that I had before did not have noise but this, the replacement the Sony sent is very strange. Regardless where I plug it, in the wall or in the PP2000 it has noise. The noise is lover if I eliminate preamp but still there. However I bridge the grounds the noise is still there. I do not write a final verdict about it as I think if I keep looking then I will address it but I so far was not able to find the problem. For sure it is not PP2000 problem. It is certain that the presence of PP2000 makes people to be more precise in this grounding arrangement but I think in my given case it is just the somehow faulty player. As I said I have a few other older DVD players and as I plug them I had absolutely no problems. Yes, Clark, I did of cause experimented with AC polarity.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

11-20-2013

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #:	1208
Post ID:	20283
Reply to:	2931

The PurePower and … a compressor.

It was an interesting event today. I have a big air compressor home that got broken, so I borrowed a portable electric compressor from my neighbor. I plug it in outside the house and blew up the irrigation system, preparing it for winter. Then I brought the compressor in Opera Room as Amy wanted me to put some trim in the wall. The compressor did not start. I figured that I broke up the neighbor compressor. The thing did juts 2-3 puffs and choked. Interesting that as it tried to start it sunk the voltage in the whole house, the room lights went very dim and the PP2000 that powers Opera Room equipment switched to battery operation.

I was trying it a few times and then my 20A fuse went off. OK, I figured, the motor or compressor is cooked. I brought the compressor to the neighbor telling him that I broke it and now I owe him a compressor. It was my surprise when the neighbor informed me that the compressor works just fine.
Well, to make the long story short and after many experiments I concluded that the compressor sucks over 35 and not willing to start only if it plugged into the same circuitry where my PP2000 plugged. Of cause I do not plug the compressor into PP2000 but rather use the same wall outlet, of the wall outlets of the same AC phase. As soon I unplugged PP2000 from the wall, of use another AC side the compressor starts and works just wonderfully.

This is an interesting observation. It might be that the compressor is defective and has some strange start up electronics that somehow interact with AC noise that PP2000 injects back to the wall.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

12-15-2013

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #:	1209
Post ID:	20377
Reply to:	2931

The cynicism of these things is amassing.

http://www.akikoaudio.com/en/products/176-akiko-audio-powerbase-quattro-3-en

How pathetic those idiots are! Those Morons do not even hide and they advertise themselves as “create a power strip from high quality materials, without paying attention to the costs of the materials or the amount of working hours... , gold and ruby can be added to this mix, designed for the spoiled audiophiles”.

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

12-30-2013

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1211
Post ID:	20411
Reply to:	2931

A dedicated line: single phase vs. three phase?

Firts of all apologies for not going through all 49 pages of the thread and asking probably a well known question with a well known answer.

I'm slowly gravitating towards that black hole of a "clean power". As a first obvious step I'm thinking of a dedicated line.
I live in a town house from the 50ties. There is a power distribution box directly in my apartment (it's an adapted attic),
so taking a dedicated line directly from the box should be a very easy task (where and how the box is connected to the
house's grid no idea). I have there both the single phase as well as the three phase power (the latter
powers a water heater in my flat) and here comes the question: is any of them better for an audio dedicated line?
That is, is stripping the three phase down to one inherently better/worse than a direct single phase line?
Having zero experience here, my intuition tells me the three phase *might* be cleaner without all the computers,
dimmers, led lights etc, but sure I am not.

Thank you for any input,
N-set

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

12-30-2013

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1213
Post ID:	20413
Reply to:	20411

Hi-Fi is 1 Phase

N-Set, how do you plan to convert the 3 phase back to 1 phase? Also, it is likely that the whole house system uses the same ground. IMO, careful routing and keeping neutrals and grounds separate to the original ground bus is probably as good as anything.

And you're right; all this has been covered in this thread.

Best regards,
Paul S

12-31-2013

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scooter
Posts 161
Joined on 07-17-2008

Post #:	1214
Post ID:	20415
Reply to:	20413

My rewiring experience in 50s house

N-Set, Happy New Year. I think you are running 230v 50hz in Poland so a lot of comments on this board may not be applicable.

I lived in a 50s house in the US at 120v 60hz with terrible electrics (terrible everything really but that is a different story). I decided to tackle that problem from a few angles.

1) Install a new service box in the basement where the electricity entered the house; the old box had a lot of corroded contacts and buzzed.

2) Run new dedicated lines to listening room.

3) Try a few retail power filter boxes in listening room.

This was not terribly expensive and made a big difference for my room. There are still a few fantastic electricity days in the winter and some terrible days in the summer so unlike Romy, I haven't resolved the electricity issue. If I remember correctly, the PurePower power filter box seemed to remove all the electricity "sonic" volatility from his system. I haven't tried the PurePower so can't comment. Also your results may vary house-to-house. And 230v unit may or may not be less effective than 120v unit.

Anyways, as the original house electrics were so terrible, I was very pleased with the sonic impact of the service box/wiring/simple filter box upgrade. Everyone's situation is different and always changing so who knows what will work for you. This is a very good thread so please take the time to read the whole thing before wasting your time and money on electrics.

01-01-2014

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N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 609
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #:	1215
Post ID:	20419
Reply to:	20413

3 phase to 1 phase

Happy New Year to everybody!

Paul S wrote:
N-Set, how do you plan to convert the 3 phase back to 1 phase? Also, it is likely that the whole house system uses the same ground.

Paul, each phase to neutral is 230V, so as I understand in theory a single 3phase line can give 3 individual single phases.
Thi is probably how my single phase installation is made.
You are certainly right about the common ground, no chance I have a dedicated one.

I guess I first have to ask an electrician to take a carefull look how exacty the things are arranged in my case
to be more specific.

decoud, I'll go with a single phase PSU for the amp for sure given that not at each location there is a 3 phase.

scooter, I'm trying to make your point 2)

Cheers,
N-set

Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE

01-01-2014

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Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #:	1216
Post ID:	20420
Reply to:	20419

1 Hot, 1 Neutral and 1 Ground

Well, I don't know about 3-phase for a residential water heater. It sounds like the electrician would be a good idea. I do not like the idea of different phase hot lines sharing a neutral or ground wire for split circuits, and especially not for hi-fi. Again, if at all possible, keep neutrals and ground separate all the way "home" to the main ground bus, and configure any sub panels this way, if possible.

3-phase is almost never used for residential in the US, but it is popular commercially to run motors, especially larger motors, but also in shops where motors are running all the time; 3-phase motors run forever, at a more stable speed.

Best regards,
Paul S

01-02-2014

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #:	1217
Post ID:	20421
Reply to:	20419

In your county...

N-set, I do not think that we from America would be able to talk about 3-phase or to share any 3-phase experiences. We in US do not have 3-phase in residential neighborhood, in fact it is prohibited by code and if you want to have it then it is very expensive to bring in. I personally did not hear audio people experiment with 3-phase.

I do not think that you want any 3-phase; there is truly no use for it in audio. You want one phase but here is the trick question: which of 3 phases you want? Each of 3 phases would have different load, different noise level and I am sure would sound different. Unfortunately you need to have all phases in your listening room (or basement) in order to figure out which one is better sonically.

In US we have 240V supplies throughout and as the voltage brought in it down transformed to 120V. So, we have effectively 2 lines of 120V of the same phase. Those 2 lines of 120V do act in a way like individual phases and they have different loads and the character of the load has little impact to another half. I said little impact but not “no impact”. I would say that 5% impact… The irony and in a way the sad truth is that each of those 120V live do sound very distinctly different. I do not know if it has to do with the way hoe the poll transformer is winded, which line is nosiest, or what is closer to the primary but it always, regardless of the load, one side sound distinctly better then another side. The difference is in a way remind the difference in acoustic absolute phase but in my view it is even more profound. In my listening room the dedicated line has actuals two runs: 120A and 120B, or each of the 240V half. I have just two well-marked outlets…

All of this has very little to do with you and your 3-phase situation might be very different. I think you need to talk more with audio guys in your county to get consult with them.

The Cat

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

02-02-2014

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #:	1218
Post ID:	20510
Reply to:	2931

A power surge. Hm?

It is quite Sunday morning here in Massachusetts, snow, sun, rain… Coming this morning to basement where we have a full scale gym I sow wify is abusing a machine that he does not like. I asked “what happen to your favorite machine?” It got a virus “ - she replied. An inspection of her treadmill reviled that it kind of cooked. That is strange I thought.

Last night I scheduled to record BSO all Revel program and I decided to play it this morning. The fuse on R&S receiver was blown. The DAW ‘s Lynx mixer does not work. The Lavry DAC 924’s out stage looks like dead. Everything ease is functional. That is interesting. If I had some lighting then the first thing that shall go down would be tuner’s input staged but they are operational. If I had strike over the power lines then I understand why treadmill went down but the audio equipment was sitting being PP3000+!!!

Also, how come that power surge did not damage the DAW but killed the setting on Lynx mixer? Very very strange….

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

02-02-2014

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steverino
Posts 353
Joined on 05-22-2009

Post #:	1219
Post ID:	20511
Reply to:	20510

Yoww

Terrible news. I'm sorry to hear that, but electricity is a mad, mad, mad thing that acts in mysterious ways. There is a thread about it somewhere on the internet I have heard. I'm puzzled by the statement that the components were "sitting being PP3000"?? Do you mean they were all hooked up to it? Of course it's possible that the surge was so quick and at a level just below setting off the PP fuses that it raced through and damaged the most sensitive units only. But I'm no expert on such things. I do have a balun (PS Audio UO) between my preamp components and the PP to provide a bit more protection. The UO has a 1A fastblo.

02-03-2014

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Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #:	1220
Post ID:	20515
Reply to:	20511

Weirdness of lighting.

I consulted Dima and he expanded to me how lighting propagates itself in space – very fascinating subject. It looks like the PP3000 protection is absolutely irrelevant for lighting. I wish could have somebody to blame

"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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