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  »  New  45Hz Bass Horn..  Can We Ever be Saved From Ourselves?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     23  306304  09-19-2006
  »  New  8" Goto Woofer for 60Hz Horn..  It's not a Goto 8in driver...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  84565  11-03-2008
  »  New  The Macondo’s Upper Bass Channel: what is next?..  Görlich again...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     30  279645  10-28-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1509332  08-03-2007
  »  New  Romy The Cat's new Listening Room..  Won't be the last time he makes that trip!...  Audio Discussions  Forum     478  2779808  03-28-2010
  »  New  Problems with horns: upper bass ..  Must it be about loading?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     109  1130446  03-25-2005
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  2062354  07-26-2009
  »  New  Macondo’s lowest channel...  What truly are you tryin to accomplish?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     150  1344006  09-15-2010
  »  New  Practical Guide for Back Chambers Tuning...  Back chamber’s cost-benefit....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  72929  10-21-2006
  »  New  Superbly interesting effect: Suspended decoupled floor ..  Superbly interesting effect: Suspended decoupled floor ...  Playback Listening  Forum     0  17313  10-08-2010
  »  New  Midbass impedance bumps -- why and what to do?..  You need to stop deceive yourself....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     18  187141  10-21-2010
  »  New  Mystery of bass horn calibration: Radiating Surface Dee..  Mystery of bass horn calibration: Radiating Surface Dee...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  16597  02-03-2011
  »  New  Impulse response, short notes and midbass horns...  A possible solution to better impulse?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  123124  06-13-2011
07-20-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 101
Post ID: 14041
Reply to: 13597
And the driver-winner is…
fiogf49gjkf0d
I spans last night some time measuring all my Vitavox 15-incers drivers, inspecting them, matching them and trying to find perfect pair.  I would probably get involve in Ménage à trios and will sleep with them if I were able to arrange it. Since the drivers are old, from 50s, they all a bit different:  the way how they were preserved and uses is not the last criteria.

As the result a have selected a “perfect pair”, or something that I decals as “perfect”. They are two Vitavox 15/40 drivers – one brand new and another “spotted” one. The new one is absolutely new – never was mounted of even removed from sealed Vitavox wooden box. It has 49.6Hz resonance and very sexy cone tone. It match is spotted driver. It has some very minor drops of paint over the cone. The spotted has 50.3Hz air resonance, absolutely identical impedance rise to the new driver (!) and identically-sexy cone tone. Those drivers as my final selection to be used in my midbass horns.  Let see how much they drop resonance frequency being loaded. I did not play with hyperbolic reactance a lot and it will be investigative to me.   I consulted with Bruce Edgar and he feels that it might go as low and low 30s. In my case the small mouth and the fact that I will be fitting the drivers “on ground” might add some discrepancies. Well, will see. I won’t finalize the dimensions of my back chamber before I measure the composite resonance of drivers loaded into the horns.

Vitavox k15_40_brochure.jpg

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-20-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,571
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 102
Post ID: 14044
Reply to: 14040
Pre-Fab
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy, it is not difficult to find tough plastic and transite pipe in many sizes, including diameters large enough to house your entire woofer, and many types have a range of manufacturered fittings, including sleeves and reducers, that you might adapt for your purposes.  As I mentioned before, there is a fitting called a "floor flange" that will adapt pipe to attach to wood, concrete, or whatever.  Steam pipe and other industrial piping can be found made of all sorts of exotic materials, with specs dictated by flow rates and resistance to pressure, corrosive effects and/or static build-up.  There are several iterations of the Sweet's Catalog, for instance, that list this sort of thing.  Not "cheap", but probably faster and much less expensive than machining from billets, especially if you wind up needing a "do-over" at some point.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-20-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 103
Post ID: 14046
Reply to: 14032
The horn will be mounted ...
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
The view is from the  mouth of the right horn.

Midbass_progress_12.JPG

Here is the way how the horn will be mounted between the top and bottom beams and along with rafters. What is very kinky in here is that the curved space between two roofs (rafters of all roof is going up in diagonal) id use to fit the curvature of my hyperbolic profile – very-very cool design in my view.

Midbass_progress_13.gif




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-21-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 104
Post ID: 14058
Reply to: 13986
The Midbass horn Maquette
fiogf49gjkf0d
The back section is made not in the scale and not in right proportion. The front piece is the correct one.

Midbass_progress_14.JPG


Midbass_progress_15.JPG


Midbass_progress_16.JPG


Midbass_progress_17.JPG




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-21-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,571
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 105
Post ID: 14061
Reply to: 14058
4 Sides +
fiogf49gjkf0d
I don't know about the multi-step plywood "curves", per se, but using a 4-sided horn has a very distinct advantage over 3 sides if building with 3/4" birch plywood, namely this will eliminate (most of) the twist that the third-of-three diagonal sides would have had a lot of.


Best regards,
Paul S
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 106
Post ID: 14062
Reply to: 13597
The first blow: the horn’s skin too thin.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Last night I was playing with my ¾” Baltic Birch. What I realized is that my Jew frugality played a bad joke on me.  At this point I do feel that ¾” of plywood is not enough thickness for my 43.5Hz horn. I understand that it will be heavily braced, perhaps each 8 inch but still I do not like it p I would like more substance in the horn skin. If course not only the Jew frugality and my desire to buy less plywood made me to decide for ¾ inch. The weight was a big consideration factor and the fact that 1.5inch wall for instance will minimize the operational, useful volume of my horn’s mouth. Anyhow, now after hours of dealing with ¾” Baltic Birch I do feel that it was a mistake – I need a thicker walls.

Now is the question what can I do? This is complicated as the math for the ¾” is doe and we are pretty much ready to cut the wood. If I glue two of ¾ layers then it will be twice heavier, still I wonder if it makes sense for me to go for it. I have some alternatives that I am weighing now.

1)      Each section between the brace to feel with mixture of send and roofing contrite.  The roofing contrite is tar-like plastic that is wonderful dampening. I might even drop into the roofing contrite some lead shots (I have 800 pounds)

2)      To make colossal amount of bracing, pretty much to built a second layer with 2 x4 that will sit behind the plywood on screws and polyurethane glue.

3)      Discover if exists some kind of heavy-mass construction spray-adhesive (foam) and to damp that foam (perhaps mixing it with sand) into the section between the 2x4

4)      Forget the frugality and reasoning and to glue second layer of plywood to my current 3/4 plywood

I have all options on the table now…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 107
Post ID: 14064
Reply to: 14062
The Solution.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:

Last night I was playing with my ¾” Baltic Birch. What I realized is that my Jew frugality played a bad joke on me.  At this point I do feel that ¾” of plywood is not enough thickness for my 43.5Hz horn. I understand that it will be heavily braced, perhaps each 8 inch but still I do not like it p I would like more substance in the horn skin. If course not only the Jew frugality and my desire to buy less plywood made me to decide for ¾ inch. The weight was a big consideration factor and the fact that 1.5inch wall for instance will minimize the operational, useful volume of my horn’s mouth. Anyhow, now after hours of dealing with ¾” Baltic Birch I do feel that it was a mistake – I need a thicker walls.

Now is the question what can I do? This is complicated as the math for the ¾” is doe and we are pretty much ready to cut the wood. If I glue two of ¾ layers then it will be twice heavier, still I wonder if it makes sense for me to go for it. I have some alternatives that I am weighing now.

1)      Each section between the brace to feel with mixture of send and roofing contrite.  The roofing contrite is tar-like plastic that is wonderful dampening. I might even drop into the roofing contrite some lead shots (I have 800 pounds)

2)      To make colossal amount of bracing, pretty much to built a second layer with 2 x4 that will sit behind the plywood on screws and polyurethane glue.

3)      Discover if exists some kind of heavy-mass construction spray-adhesive (foam) and to damp that foam (perhaps mixing it with sand) into the section between the 2x4

4)      Forget the frugality and reasoning and to glue second layer of plywood to my current 3/4 plywood

I have all options on the table now…


After much consideration I think I came up with a solution of the horn skin problem. I will do the recursive variable thickens. The horn will have 7 chords. He even chords will be made by 2 glued ¾ layers with 2x2 braces.  The uneven chords will be made by one ¾ layer and 2x4 braces and the 1” mix of sand, led shots and roofing cement purred into the sells between braces. The order of even and uneven surfaced will be different for vertical and horizontal sides. Considering that each chord has its own length the pressure wave in horn will not see any systemic alternation of mass and it will be more or less random. I think this solution would be an OK compromise between overbuilt solidity and economics. In fact, since roofing cement and double-layer have different damming characteristics I presume that my way of making the horn might be even superior is to a solution of making the whole horn from 1.5 inch continue-thinness of wood. Since I did not see anybody did this way I would grand to this solution my own name – thy “Chess Skin”. The image below well depicts the idea. The Red sections are double wood 1.5” and the blue are roofing cement with sand and led. I might even go for super-mixing and make ERACH two neighboring sells with red or blue construction. It will even more randomize the structural integrity of the horn.

Midbass_progress_19.jpg

Are to planing to stop by in a few weeks to lift the thing 20 feet upin air before we slide it to the attic?

The Cat




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
msaudio
Posts 45
Joined on 12-09-2009

Post #: 108
Post ID: 14066
Reply to: 14064
Over Blown Horn Concept.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I have built quite a few bass horns and found any thing over 1/2 inch ply wood reinforced is all you need, in front of your baffle. If you had ever built a few on your own and had the right equipment to test you would realize this, but when your a hasbeen you just try to overbuild thanking there is some sonic improvment. You should of let us horn pro's design and build it for you and you wood had the best then, instead of paying some carpenter with no horn building background off of some scibble you had on paper. Audio Geeks do this because they have been jerking off to high fidelity magazine's for to many years. Instead of looking at picture's you should try building something yourself, then when you talk about the subject you at least will have some credibility. A real jew would of built it themself to save the money on the labor. 3/4 plywood is all you need.  Preaching Horn Religion  MSAUDIO
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 109
Post ID: 14069
Reply to: 14066
An US pomposity complex?
fiogf49gjkf0d

 msaudio wrote:
I have built quite a few bass horns and found any thing over 1/2 inch ply wood reinforced is all you need, in front of your baffle. If you had ever built a few on your own and had the right equipment to test you would realize this, but when your a hasbeen you just try to overbuild thanking there is some sonic improvment. You should of let us horn pro's design and build it for you and you wood had the best then, instead of paying some carpenter with no horn building background off of some scibble you had on paper. Audio Geeks do this because they have been jerking off to high fidelity magazine's for to many years. Instead of looking at picture's you should try building something yourself, then when you talk about the subject you at least will have some credibility. A real jew would of built it themself to save the money on the labor. 3/4 plywood is all you need.  Preaching Horn Religion  MSAUDIO

MSaudio, before I did not build and did not managed projects to build midbass horns. This is my first 43Hz horn and I hope the last one - I do not do it for fun of building but because I know how to use it and intend to do so. Ironically what I do, would it be electronics or anything with acoustic system, is well exposed at my site: in pictures, explanations and in honest analyses of result. In contrary you claim that you “has built quite a few bass horns” but any my request to tell about them ended up with from idiotic accusation of me in homosexuality to absolutely ignorant claims about the use overly low resonance frequency in horns. I do not know who are you but I think that you are a fake. I quite know ALL capable horn builders in US and I do talk with many of them, consulting with them and compare notes about my project. I do not know you and I have a feeling that you do not exist. You most like another audio fool who do not understand what is going on at this site and decided to invent MSAUDIO - Preaching Horn Religion Character -  a full of parochial fears son of bitch with a complex of US’ Midwest pomposity.  Unfortunately, whoever you are, you are a bit overplaying and your functional MSaudio character looks more like a cardboard situate…

Back to the subject of skin thickness for midbass horn. I do not think that 1/2 inch plywood is enough for 43Hz horn. I heard a number of midbass horns with thin skin and I like none of them. I am sure that the thickness of the skin was NOT ONLY the factor. I heard only one midbass horn that I did like. Incidentally it was 50 Hz horns made from two layers of 1” wood, separated with 1 inch of sea sand. Unfortunately I will not be able to put THAT type of constriction to my attic.

Anyhow, I do appreciate your intention to be useful but be advised that the credibility and familiarity with specifics your have expressed might make me very soon just to ignore your posts. I do it with some other posters at this site; you are in the very near list.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 110
Post ID: 14070
Reply to: 14021
The back chamber predictions
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
I do not have a final design of my back chamber. The image above is a concept that I deliver to my carpenter – we will go from there to see what we can do. I certainly would like do not overbuilt the back chamber. The notion of adjustability is very good but the back chamber most like will be adjusted ONLY once. Well, I do admit that I would like to be able to play with back chamber volume with respect to the plate loading of the 3C33C that will be driving the midbass driver. But in which extend I need to go I am not sure yet. A site visitor last night proposed to me his way to do it – with two set of slotted surfaces - it might be a good idea, I need to think about it. I will need to come up with a design this week. The walk-ins are
welcome….

I asked Jeffrey Jackson of Experience Music to help me with prediction of max sixe of my back chamber. I gave to him the T/S data for my driver and the horn dimensions.

FS: 47HZ
Re: 9.57 Ohm
Qms:9.173
Qts:0.304
Sd: 8.04^2m^2
Cms:2.35^4
Vas:7.42 cub.ft(212L)
dB 1W/1M: 99dB

Based upon his predictions I decided to stay with max sixe of back chamber of of 140 liters or 19 by 19 by 24 inches of I get near or above resonance of 40 Hz reactance-load driver. If after I load the drive into the horn I get low 30s resonance then I will go for the size of back chamber 19 by 19 by 16. The images below show the Jeffrey’s predictions.

Midbass_progress_20.jpg

Impedance and SPL at 75 liters (gray line) and 56 liters (black line).

Midbass_progress_21.jpg

Midbass_progress_22.jpg




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
msaudio
Posts 45
Joined on 12-09-2009

Post #: 111
Post ID: 14071
Reply to: 14069
Thickness Of Horn Shin
fiogf49gjkf0d

Romy   If you would thank about what you are building and what it does, you would grasp the concept of my thanking. You have a 7inch hole on your bafflle with your woofer on the back side of it in a sealed box. The only presure that this device has is behind the cone from a sealed box and in the front of the cone were it is trying to figure out how to get threw the 7 inch hole. These are the area's that need to be real strong. After the sound goes threw the 7 inch hole there is no stress on anything, Sound will not buckel or deform the wood walls of your horn in any way. All you need to do is just remove the resonance of the horn skin, witch any long piece of wood has. This could be done with fiberglass and 1x2 strips. Also the resonance of the horn skin might be above the frequency that you intend to use it in the first place.  Good luck   Preaching Horn Religion    MSAUDIO

07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 112
Post ID: 14073
Reply to: 14071
You again sound like a fish thrown to a beach.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 msaudio wrote:

Romy   If you would thank about what you are building and what it does, you would grasp the concept of my thanking. You have a 7inch hole on your bafflle with your woofer on the back side of it in a sealed box. The only presure that this device has is behind the cone from a sealed box and in the front of the cone were it is trying to figure out how to get threw the 7 inch hole. These are the area's that need to be real strong. After the sound goes threw the 7 inch hole there is no stress on anything, Sound will not buckel or deform the wood walls of your horn in any way. All you need to do is just remove the resonance of the horn skin, witch any long piece of wood has. This could be done with fiberglass and 1x2 strips. Also the resonance of the horn skin might be above the frequency that you intend to use it in the first place.  Good luck   Preaching Horn Religion    MSAUDIO

Yes, I know that back chamber and the mounting baffle need to be very strong – I spec them for 2.5” thickness. Regarding the “after the sound goes threw the 7 inch hole there is no stress on anything” – I very much disagree.  The resonances are very easy to detect by spilling sand over the horn skin and also by holding hands over the horn surface.  The people who REALLY build many bass horns (not the virtual horns of your imagination) almost unanimously report that mouth of the horns has maximum vibration from own sound. That is in complete correlation with what I experienced touching a few bass horns. If you report that sound does not stress anything after throat then I would question if you ever dealt with ether horn construction or with horn listening.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
msaudio
Posts 45
Joined on 12-09-2009

Post #: 113
Post ID: 14075
Reply to: 14073
Slinging 2 Much Bullshit
fiogf49gjkf0d
You go a head and stroke your minion Romy. But the few that have some brains will see threw your bullshit. You rap your horn skin in fiberglass with some 1/2 strips and if you get it to resonate at any frequency between 40 and 180 cycles, I will pay you $100.00 and if it does not you pay me $100.00.   I have on my property a set of Altec A7 The horn skin is made 5/8 ply wood with just fiberglass there is no resonace from 40 to 500 hz. I also have a set of JBL folded horns that is made from 3/4 with no resonace from 40 to 500 hz. So you claim that these Companies sold some bogus cheap junk. For someone that has no horn building experiance you talk Msaudio.JPGto much shit.    Preaching Horn Religion   Msaudio
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
msaudio
Posts 45
Joined on 12-09-2009

Post #: 114
Post ID: 14076
Reply to: 14073
Equipment Required To Build Horns
fiogf49gjkf0d
You have to have a table saw to build horns.   Preaching Horn Religion   MSAUDIOMsaudio2.JPG
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,571
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 115
Post ID: 14077
Reply to: 14075
Good Vibrations
fiogf49gjkf0d
MSA, you know I am doubtful of Romy's design, but still I have to ask if are you saying you can put your fingers on the plywood of a stock A7 bin and not feel it vibrate during play?  Also, whether I crossed mine at 500 Hz or 800 Hz, I could "hear the bin".  I moved on from those speakers before I learned how to determine which frequencies were involved, but based on my own experience I would not hold up the stock A7 as an example of a silent horn.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 116
Post ID: 14078
Reply to: 14066
Horn body resonance: Its true what they say...
fiogf49gjkf0d
About horn body resonance:
 
I used to doubt the need for mass in horns; after all, how much energy can a flimsy paper cone generate? Still, I went ahead and followed the advice of others when building mine, making them very strong and heavy. 
 
With the upper-bass horns finished, I set about adjusting the rear chamber volume, and guess what, no question about it, while playing certain test tones at around 95dB, the flimsy little paper cone of an 8" driver made the 400lb (3" thick, made from masonry) body of the horns very obviously resonate to the touch. I could not hear the resonance, but I could certainly feel it. Keep in mind I am talking about upper-bass horns here.

In the case of my still un-damped mid-bass horns, a cheap clock radio playing music while located in the throat is enough to make the body resonate near the mouth; this observation was made with only half a horn playing into "half space" (against the floor). In the case of these horns, the stiffening ribs do serve to raise the natural resonance of the horn's body, but their main purpose is to maintain the horn's shape.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
msaudio
Posts 45
Joined on 12-09-2009

Post #: 117
Post ID: 14079
Reply to: 14077
Horn Thickness
fiogf49gjkf0d

The units that i put in my pictures JBL AND ALTEC A7 both designs have a resonance just like all wood that you would rap your nuckels on even 2 inch thick plywood will resonate at a given frequency, that goes for glass, cement, metal, they all doit.  The nuckel test on the A7 is about 350 Cycles with no overtones or vibrations. The problem with the A7 Is the weak box constuction with no extra 2x2 reinforcement on the large side walls and back, those are the real problems. When you put a tone threw the woofer at 1 watt you get out 103 db at 333hz. So you thank you are going to hear a spike or see one on your RTA at 350 hz, Sorry you won't. Altec A7 that i have is the one that has 1 1/4 rapped dense fiberglass around the horn with fiber washers stapled to horn, and it has a single tone only when you put your nuckel on it, without viberation. I use mine for playback in my studio not for monitoring. These A7 are not perfect to use for sound reproduction, they serve a purpose with a large room of 46X30.  Preaching Horn Religion   MSAUDIO

07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 118
Post ID: 14080
Reply to: 14079
The thickness and horns and the sickness of a person.
fiogf49gjkf0d
The more msaudio trying to “criticizes” my projects and expose his “rational” the more I feel a need not to ignore but actually to laugh. When some people without a sense of perspective or reality run in stadium then they might feel that they are ahead, being a many circles behind. Msaudio, I do not need your advice anymore. I do not sell you anything and I juts describe how I navigate my own project. As not your opinion do not hold any interest to me. Please stop pollute my threads.  If you have nothing else to do but to comment about my project then create your own  thread “msaudio academy” and upload in there your craziness.

Anyhow, about the Horn Thickness. Jessie you are right – all flimsy horns vibrate. I am not talking about cheap 200Hz horns from Altec or JBL but about more or less properly made horns.  I spoke with a number of horns makers, the true horns makers not the self-posed fieldmartials  of “Horn Religion”. They pretty much advised to use wood from 1” to 1.5”. Still, I do not need anybody to advise anything – it is very self-evident for anybody observant who horns work.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,049
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 119
Post ID: 14082
Reply to: 13597
What is important in Midbass Horn?
fiogf49gjkf0d

I realized that this thread is slowly becoming the most sophisticated web recourse about Midbass Horn available. Trying to keep the thread educational I would like to introduce to my readers one more objective of my project. The subject is super important and could be a full blown own thread on it’s own but I decided to imbed this subject into my midbass project thread as to me, it is a part of my whole vision.

Many audio people unfortunately do not recognize that bass note is not a just “frequency bump” but a full of character LF event.  Audio people recognize zillion little characters in MF “bumps” but we for some reasons they do not presume that LF events have the same magnitude of characters. I think we do that because it is very difficult to get LF and as we eventually get some bass then we are so happy that we go alone with it without questioning it too much. However, most of the LF bumps that audio people get sound like the same note and the whole bass has no a lot of discrimination of character.

Topologically any single ported or dipole bass application sound like the same note.  The sealed enclosure might have some character but in relatively narrow band pass. I think that reasons for it is that all of them use in one way or another resonance of the system to amplify bass. So, is any way to get bass amplification with use of resonance and to use acoustic system as a strictly linear resistive-load transducer? Yes, here we have a midbass horn.  You see, in a properly design long horn the driver resonance does not exist. I mean it exists but it smeared by the that reactance and the whole driver operation see purely resistive load. Add to it a need for no super stiff suspension, no excursion, high compliance to low currents, sensitivity and etc and we have in my view an opportunity for LF notes to sound in max synchronization with the current of signal.

So, to have the max possible magnitude of sounds at LF is one of the objectives of my midbass project. This, combining with the super softness that I am craving from midbass horn will make me very happy.

http://www.GoodSoundClub.com/TreeItem.aspx?PostID=13846

I warn that I do not know where the super softness and super notes discrimination is coming from. My vision is to behave like Cats do. When Cat does not feel good she stop eating and put herself in hunger. The stoppage of the food stop bring the organic poisons that we get via food and the Cat body begin to self-regulate itself, in fact removing the former poisons from the body. (Read the works of Herbert Shelton and Ragnar Berg about intentional starvation/fasting). So, my idea is the similar: give to horn the best driver, best signal and make it absolutely flawlessly designed and the refuse to poison horn with all know to me sources of poisoning. My presumption is that then a midbass channel will be performing with “Original” non-poisoned Sound instead of demonstrating the artifacts of multiple mistakes midbass horns usually demonstrate.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-22-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
msaudio
Posts 45
Joined on 12-09-2009

Post #: 120
Post ID: 14083
Reply to: 14082
Super Softness Mid Bass
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I have also noticed this in the past, But i could not say it was from the the Mid bass driver or horn. I was trying out a amp at a friends house with his system and i had this bass softness and i thought it was his speakers but we tryed his own amp and it was tight and real, come to find out after putting it on the bench it was a slightly weak tube in the second stage of the amp. A lot of the people that i work on there tube amps for bass guitars like this softness in there bass amp so i try to keep a hole bunch of extra tubes to create the sound the player wants, same for the electric guitars, every one is looking for there own sound.   Preaching Horn Religion   MSAUDIO
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