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  »  New  45Hz Bass Horn..  Can We Ever be Saved From Ourselves?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     23  307374  09-19-2006
  »  New  8" Goto Woofer for 60Hz Horn..  It's not a Goto 8in driver...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  84926  11-03-2008
  »  New  The Macondo’s Upper Bass Channel: what is next?..  Görlich again...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     30  281136  10-28-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1515127  08-03-2007
  »  New  Romy The Cat's new Listening Room..  Won't be the last time he makes that trip!...  Audio Discussions  Forum     478  2794283  03-28-2010
  »  New  Problems with horns: upper bass ..  Must it be about loading?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     109  1135018  03-25-2005
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  2071185  07-26-2009
  »  New  Macondo’s lowest channel...  What truly are you tryin to accomplish?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     150  1350779  09-15-2010
  »  New  Practical Guide for Back Chambers Tuning...  Back chamber’s cost-benefit....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  73287  10-21-2006
  »  New  Superbly interesting effect: Suspended decoupled floor ..  Superbly interesting effect: Suspended decoupled floor ...  Playback Listening  Forum     0  17417  10-08-2010
  »  New  Midbass impedance bumps -- why and what to do?..  You need to stop deceive yourself....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     18  187918  10-21-2010
  »  New  Mystery of bass horn calibration: Radiating Surface Dee..  Mystery of bass horn calibration: Radiating Surface Dee...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  16691  02-03-2011
  »  New  Impulse response, short notes and midbass horns...  A possible solution to better impulse?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  123750  06-13-2011
06-28-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 61
Post ID: 13866
Reply to: 13855
CAD software
fiogf49gjkf0d
If not for my current engagement with a race against the clock and the resulting manic situation, I'd offer to do the modeling work for you. As it is, I'm working flat out while symultaneously preparing for a very long-distance move. This situation has forced putting the construction of my own mid-bass horns on hold.

Autodesk, the parent company for various CAD software applications, offers a free 30-day trial of AutoCAD as well as just about every one of their products, amongst which, there are several NURBS and subdivision-based CAD apps. Not all are listed on the "trials" page; use the search function to find a specific application if not listed (under "All Product Trials"). It is unlikely that trial versions will allow saving your work, but you may find a way around that, especially as your main objective will likely be a printed version of the plans. Unfortunately, Autodesk's downloads require installation of their "download manager/installer".

http://usa.autodesk.com/products/free-product-trials

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-06-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 62
Post ID: 13937
Reply to: 13842
A second opinion on the reframing.
fiogf49gjkf0d
I decided to bring on a table second opinion of structural engineer about my project. When my walls will be removed and all structural elements are exposed I am willing to bring on site a structural consultant who would re-evaluate my project and give to me a second opinion. After interviewing a number of structural engineers and architect I feel comfortable with this guy.

http://www.phelanengineering.com/

He is a bit expensive but I think well worth it. To wake up and to have horns on my laps would be more expensive…

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 63
Post ID: 13985
Reply to: 13597
The "maket" time.
fiogf49gjkf0d

I had a meeting with my carpenter and he pitched me two interesting ideas

1)      Because we built ¼ of horn then the curve is relatively small. So, after do some circulations he asked me: why my triangle might not have two flat perpendicular sided and one curved side? I think that if the area of each distance from throat is the right one then it shall not be a problem.

2)      After calculating the chords of horn curve he proposed that it would be much better of he built first a paper-made prototype of the horn, let say 10:1, I call it “maket” Then he feel he will be more accurately shape the chords of curve and the pattern of transition peace (BTW, we know how the transition will be done now). After we play with the maket then the full size horn will be just subject of multiplication by 10

The caT

PS: is work Maket used in English?


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Markus
Posts 68
Joined on 03-07-2007

Post #: 64
Post ID: 13986
Reply to: 13985
Maket
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:
PS: is work Maket used in English?


How about 'scale model'?
07-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 65
Post ID: 13988
Reply to: 13986
!
fiogf49gjkf0d
Maquette
07-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 66
Post ID: 13989
Reply to: 13597
OK, it is this Friday!
fiogf49gjkf0d
Ok, the day is set and this Friday my carpenter and myself will be tearing down the Triangular Wall. It will be no way back and the only solution will be to plug the wall with horns. The only questionable subject is if to put a building permit from my town to do this work. This is controversial. The work will not be exposed to outside and might go away with no permit. From additional perspective it will affect the framing of the building. I do not mind to get a permit but I have no idea what to request for. The permits are given for specific work and they are itemized. I am very much sure that not one got a permit for installation of bass horns. Did anybody have any experience with requesting of permit to do non-standard work?

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 67
Post ID: 13990
Reply to: 13989
How to predict Back Chamber.
fiogf49gjkf0d

This is a complicated subject.

While building the horn I would need to know what the size of back chamber to make.  Usually the initial size of driver diameter plus two depth works very nice. It makes big chamber that eventually might be minimized to tune the resonance frequency properly.  I do not have the Jessie’s luxury to build metal, high-precision, calibrate back chamber. My back chamber will be simpler and I will be using acoustic foam to minimize the side tuning the resonance frequency to the horn rate.

http://www.romythecat.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?postID=2991#2991

There is however a kink in my situation.  I really would like do not open and close the Back Chamber and do not staff it with filler while the horn in attic. I would like to do it while the horn at ground level BEFORE the horn will be lifted up and slide into the wall. My horn is 1.4 size and after it will be installed it will “see” the ceiling of my cathedral room. It means that the volume of the air from my cathedral ceiling pitch will be added to the mass of the air in the bell of the horn mouth, changing the rate of throat reactance and consequentially driving the resonance frequency away.

So, there are 3 options to deal with it.

1)       Set the resonance frequency after the horn are lifted up and installed. I do not want to do it – too little room will be left in attic between the horns and large center air unit.

2)      Make a maquette (thanks coops) measure that deviation of load between floor and cathedral ceiling and to presume that the delta will be the same for large horn. I do not want to do it as well as I feel it will be very inaccurately. The large horn will behave very different.

3)      Make a guess. Assume that cathedral ceiling changes let say 5Hz and to make the necessary pre-corrections.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 68
Post ID: 13991
Reply to: 13990
Smart, Simple and Direct
fiogf49gjkf0d
Glad to hear you'll be building the horns on the ground, after all.  It really is the best way, for so many reasons, as you will see.

Romy, if your carpenter knows what he is doing, then I recommend you do not alert local building officials.  They will have their own view of what you are doing, no matter what you tell them, and they may well require formal "plans" and "engineering", which will seriously increase your costs and add delays while you get it done to their satisfaction.  Then they will add their own "fees" and inspection costs, and they don't work cheap.  It can really add up in terms of time and money, not to mention the very real possibility that they'll throw you a "curveball" at some point.

Regarding the back-chambers, how about making "temporary" access holes?  Maybe something like an attic scuttle, even if you can only get your head and shoulders up there while working off a ladder.  You will be SO glad over time that you left yourself a way to adjust this as you develop the system as a whole, to work in the new space.  Of course, it may even require re-tweaking when you bring in ULF, which I ass-u-me you will do, at some point.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-14-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 69
Post ID: 13993
Reply to: 13832
The wood source is found
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:
  Where to buy inexpensive birch plywood? There are American, Canadian, Russian and Chinese birch plywood. I would like to go with Russian – much better quality, but it got pricy nowadays. I would like to pay for ¾ sheets of 4 by 8 no more than $40-$45 in case of mass buy. If any of you know in your jurisdictions a sores to get cheap Baltic birch then let me know – I might arrange shipping. Still, I would like to get the plywood in New England and to pick up it locally

Ok, the source for my Baltic Birch is found. It is in NH (means not sales tax), it is just 30 min from my house (I can pick it up). They have in stock “clear face” Baltic Birch of ¾ and at the price that is more or less reasonable.

http://www.pjclbr.com/

I think I will be loading with Russian Birch on Saturday. If everything will be as I planed then next week the project will be on it’s way.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 70
Post ID: 14000
Reply to: 13597
OK, it is started....
fiogf49gjkf0d

Midbass_progress_1.JPG

Midbass_progress_2.JPG

Midbass_progress_3.JPG

Midbass_progress_4.JPG




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 71
Post ID: 14001
Reply to: 14000
Dust to Dust
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy. if you have not already done so, I strongly recommend you cover everything in the house with cheap plastic, because of the DUST that inevitably gets EVERYWHERE unless the workers make a containment "tent", which would be cruel and unusual punishment this time of year, since working inside one is like working in a steam bath.  It is also a good idea to cover all heat/AC inlets and outlets, or the dust will begin anew when you finally fire up the FAU.  For the same reason, try to keep the doors to "your" part of the house closed while they are working, if possible.  They might be able to make a plastic "partition" to section off at least part of the house.

Best regards,
Paul S
07-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 72
Post ID: 14002
Reply to: 14000
The day is over.... now there is no way back.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Midbass_progress_5.JPG

Midbass_progress_6.JPG

Midbass_progress_7.JPG

Midbass_progress_8.JPG




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
zako
Posts 85
Joined on 05-25-2008

Post #: 73
Post ID: 14003
Reply to: 14002
2001 Space Odasy
fiogf49gjkf0d
I will be allright HAL,, I,ll be all right,,,I feel better now HAL,, Dont do this HAL,,,I,ll be alright..!!!!!!!!!!!!
07-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
wvdave
wv
Posts 4
Joined on 05-18-2010

Post #: 74
Post ID: 14004
Reply to: 14002
Interesting space
fiogf49gjkf0d
Very nice looking attic space to place horns. Don't remember if you posted the size of the horns' mouths,but if there is room i'd put an access hatch in there somewhere. Secure all those wires out of the way. And I would get rid of that fiberglass insulation and replace it w/the polyester stuff around now or better w/styrofoam sheets between the roof rafters-otherwise, your horns will be subject to large temperature variations. You may even want to arrange things so as to be able to control the climate around the horns. But, you and your carpenter have probably been over all that So far, so good with a very cool project.



Age Quod Agis
07-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 75
Post ID: 14006
Reply to: 14004
The opened up space.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Paul, I do not care about dusts. I coved what need to be coved about the rest…. I do not care. The building of midbass - is a final stage of my moving and ….unpacking. So, I did not put any “vulnerable” furniture in the house as I knew that the midbass horn is coming. Also, there is not a lot of dust. All that we do truly dirty was cutting the triangle wall, the rest is relatively clean.

Zako, sorry, I am not well-familiar with US’s pop-capture and I do not know what this quotation would mean.

Wvdave, I have posted the different numbers before. Now as the wall is out and the space is well-expose we are getting the final measurements and finalize the design in accordance to the space we have available. The space is complicated – two roofs collide but I think we will be able to use the curvature the shapes two roofs to slide the horns inside.  The basic geometry of the horns and the most important the coupling to attic space needs to be figured out first. Then we will nail doe the best way to load insulation, reroute the power and security cables, the center air ducks and so on. I will post later on a picture of the opened space you will see what I deal with.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,052
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 76
Post ID: 14007
Reply to: 14006
The space to be used: colliding roofs.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Midbass_progress_9.jpg




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
msaudio
Posts 45
Joined on 12-09-2009

Post #: 77
Post ID: 14008
Reply to: 14007
What A Cluster Fuc=k
fiogf49gjkf0d
From that location the only frequencies that would be useable would be 80hz down, basicly a subwoofer. You Don't even have 10 feet from the face of the wall to work with. I still say you will not be able to use above 80hz from this location behind your listening postion. Every frequency above 80 cycle's should be coming from the front of your listering position, next to macondo. So you only have less then a 10 foot horn depth. what is the point for this abortion? It was a quick way to devalue your property. It would of been a better idea just to put a set of Altec A7 next to macondo, and use from 180hz down. Or 2 12 inch woofers in a horn box next to macondo. Pointless.      Preaching Horn Religion    Msaudio
07-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 78
Post ID: 14009
Reply to: 14007
Rear Chamber Access
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looks like you could put a couple rear chamber access traps on the roof, accessible from the exterior of the house. Is the central AC unit sitting up there behind those insulated ducts?

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
07-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,577
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 79
Post ID: 14010
Reply to: 14007
California
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy, I am still not sure of the dimensions.  What is the length of the newly exposed section of ridge board, measured from the "king post" to where it hits the main roof?  The listening room ridge appears to land on a main roof rafter, which you might be able to double, if necessary.  It also looks like your intersecting roof construction is what is known as a "California" (rather than old-fashioned true dormer framing), where the newly exposed roof section is really just a "cricket" and it supports nothing but its own dead weight.  It would have been useful to you now if the original framers had used flat 2X10 sleepers along the valleys, to distribute the dead weight, although something like this might be done now, if you want to head off any main roof rafters.  Anyway, depending on how much higher the other (main) ridge is, you still MIGHT be able to effectively pick up some useable space for the horn by simply cutting away the main roof sheathing, and/or possibly heading off any offending main roof rafter(s), and this might well afford access into the other (main roof) attic space.  Then, you'd have room for a longer horn and/or compression boxes, providing they clear the FAU.  Of course, I am guessing from what is shown in the photos that the main roof ceiling is flat (with an attic), since, obviously, if the ceiling is vaulted under the main roof, too, you are probably pretty much stuck with the space we presently see in the picture.


Best regards,
Paul S
07-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
unicon


Posts 74
Joined on 10-14-2009

Post #: 80
Post ID: 14011
Reply to: 14008
Bass time domain
fiogf49gjkf0d
 msaudio wrote:
Every frequency above 80 cycle's should be coming from the front of your listering position, next to macondo.




thats correct the worse thing you can ever do there would be trying to  get your upper bass 80hz above from there

even in bass region we can encounter some phase problem detective by ear

try to implement your bass horn in 2ms(not more than 60cm ) time domain with macondo

btw i really like the way you doing it
i should read older posts too

gl

unicon
Page 4 of 23 (456 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 2 3 4 5 6 » ... Last »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  45Hz Bass Horn..  Can We Ever be Saved From Ourselves?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     23  307374  09-19-2006
  »  New  8" Goto Woofer for 60Hz Horn..  It's not a Goto 8in driver...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  84926  11-03-2008
  »  New  The Macondo’s Upper Bass Channel: what is next?..  Görlich again...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     30  281136  10-28-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1515127  08-03-2007
  »  New  Romy The Cat's new Listening Room..  Won't be the last time he makes that trip!...  Audio Discussions  Forum     478  2794283  03-28-2010
  »  New  Problems with horns: upper bass ..  Must it be about loading?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     109  1135018  03-25-2005
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  2071185  07-26-2009
  »  New  Macondo’s lowest channel...  What truly are you tryin to accomplish?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     150  1350779  09-15-2010
  »  New  Practical Guide for Back Chambers Tuning...  Back chamber’s cost-benefit....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     5  73287  10-21-2006
  »  New  Superbly interesting effect: Suspended decoupled floor ..  Superbly interesting effect: Suspended decoupled floor ...  Playback Listening  Forum     0  17417  10-08-2010
  »  New  Midbass impedance bumps -- why and what to do?..  You need to stop deceive yourself....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     18  187918  10-21-2010
  »  New  Mystery of bass horn calibration: Radiating Surface Dee..  Mystery of bass horn calibration: Radiating Surface Dee...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  16691  02-03-2011
  »  New  Impulse response, short notes and midbass horns...  A possible solution to better impulse?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     14  123750  06-13-2011
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