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04-02-2005 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 860
Reply to: 860
The Shelter 90X: mystery or mastery

I lately look at the noise created around the Shelter cartridges and I wonder what is going on. Shelter was doing wonderful cartridges, more or less responsibly priced and people use it for years. Bunch of the typical industry scams in past did their dirty things to Shelter cartridges, those stories are well-know and the Shelter cartridges, like the Energizer’s Bunny, were keep running. I’m personally since 1999 in love with my 901. Now the second 901 finishes its last hours on my TT and the third 901 is sitting in a box ready to jump into the game, that it will be certainly doing soon.

A year or two ago a new name in the Shelter family is emerged: Shelter 90X. Before Shelter did not give a damn about the existence of American audio propaganda and all out typical audio-vampires did not any dip into the Shelter’s destitutions (with the exaction of the famous stories).  We kept buying it in Japan directly and showed a big middle finger to all audio industry hoodlums.

Suddenly, since the Shelter 90X become available the dealer of the Shelter 90X become to pop up like the mushrooms after a rain and the each audio publication begin to push the 90X more aggressively then they push the cheesy-naked women on their advertising pages.

Well, I thought that perhaps Shelter got a new proactive US distributor of something else was going on. A friend of mine (who sold the Shelters before and after the boom) was at the time in Japan and I asked him to enquirer about the 90X. He was told me that he Japanese associates expanded him that the 90X was the Shelter 901 cartridges that was explicitly produced for US market ($1500 more expansive), than it has the very same motor, needle and suspension and it has only some non-imperative, primary cosmetic differences.

Then the reviews and the privet comments came form the 90X user who swear that the 90X is a “major leap for mankind” form the 901.  Well, I would like not to speculate and it is possible that 90X is way better cartridges but when I try to interpret what people say to me about the 90X I detect some inconsistencies.

For instance to take a lucid review from someone calling himself JerryS (I have no idea who is he)

http://www.10audio.com/shel_90x.htm

Jerry says about the 90X:

“the performance at both frequency extremes far outperforms even the Rosewood Signature Platinum”

Well, the Koetsu Rosewood NEVER was a good performer in any of the extremes. So why JerryS suddenly brings it up?

Or for instance Jerry says:

“The 90x has the very neutral overall tonal balance of the Shelter 501. It relates to the great bass and excellent treble extension of the 901. The 90x leaves these two siblings behind in several important areas. The midrange does not sound at all disconnected from the lower midrange and treble as it can with the 901”

….and further on:

 “But the biggest improvement over the 901 is not just the complete integration of the midrange into the rest of the audio spectrum – the major weakness of the 901”

Well, again. Jerry is using the Graham 2.2 tonearm that generally is very discolored at midrange. Does Jerry confuse the “integration of the midrange into the rest of the audio spectrum” with a discolored midrange by the silicone suspended Graham?  There is one more important thing: I heard much exuberant comments about the Shelters 501, 901 and 90X from many audio people but I always was superiors about their cheerfulness. They all use this Shelters with the very light contemporary arms and I NEVER was able to get out of the Shelters fine sound using the arms of 12-18g. In order to let my Shelters 901 to begin to work more or less noble I loaded my 3012 with 16-23g of extra mass making it over 25g (actually I like it when it dose 32g). When I ran the 901 cartridges at the 12g of the 3012 default mass then I did have that “disconnection of everything”.  Now, Jerry said that the 90X is taller and heavier… so I am wondering…

There are very similar moments in any single review or in a single privet comment that I head about the 90X cartridge....

However, the biggest problems that I experience from all people who love to do not like today the 901 and to admirer 90X is the fact that none of them (NONE!) when the 90X was not available ever complained about the problems with 901. No one was saying at that time that 901 had problems with midrange integration or not sufficient LF, HF or anything like this. How came that the 90X has all of that better?

Does it mean that they were clueless how a cartridge should sound while they evaluated the 901? If they were clueless during that time then what changed since then in their evaluation expertise?

Anyhow, considering that this idiotic industry do not facilitate to the end users an ability to audition the cartridges then I wonder how to get more or less objective information about cartridges, or about the 90X for instance. Are any of the readers if my site could share your thoughts on the 90X? It is quite possible that the 90X is a different and better cartridge but I would like to hear a responsibly rational comment about it.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-10-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 984
Reply to: 860
Shelter 90X: mystery resolved?
After all, I have learned that there is deference between the 901 and 90x. I wonder why on one “reviewer”, dealer or distributor were not able to explain the differences. Also, form this table it is very understandable why many people with metal ringing tweeters having huge resonance around 30Khz (Courtesy to Utopias, Wilsons, Karhmas, Avalons and the rest HF crap) suggest that 90x cartages is “more musical” and has “smother upper midrange regions”.

  Shelter 901 Shelter 90X 
Voltage 0,5 mV at 1 kHz  0,6 mV at 1kHz
Magnet  Samarium cobalt and highly pure iron Neodymium
Coils  Highly pure copper 4N OFC
Stick  Aluminum coated Boron  Aluminum coated Boron
Body  Aluminum Anodized aluminum
Response  10–50.000  20-20.000
DCR 15 ohms 15 ohms
Separation 30 dB @ 1 kHz 25 dB @ 1 kHz
Needle Elliptical; 0,3 x 0,7 mil Elliptical; 0,3 x 0,7 mil
VTF  1.7 to 2,0 g 1.7 to 2,0 g
Weight  9,1 gram 9,7 gram



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-11-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Antonio J.
Madrid, Spain
Posts 272
Joined on 08-15-2004

Post #: 3
Post ID: 985
Reply to: 860
Re: Shelter 90X: mystery resolved?
Did you manage to listen the 90x? Do you think those performance differences have any influence on the music in your system?
05-11-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 986
Reply to: 860
Is it “musical” or the 90x is just...

...simpler...

Yes, I heard 90x multiple times in the diverse systems but it was never possible to make any judgment about 90x as the systems always were inadequate. I got feelings what 90x’s sound is all about. Mostly got the feelings from the feedback of the multiple 90x users correlating their reaction with thier own listening preferences, conditionings, the specifics of their systems and thier exposure to some other analog alternatives. The 90x should be a fine cartridge and particularly for a person who has one arm and one cartridge.

I’m personally not planning to pursuit the 90x as I have no use for it: if I need the full capacity of a stereo record then the 901 dose it juts fine. If I need to glorify stereo sound, make it more lush and less “techi” then I have Koetsu or Ortofon @ the mono domain. Also, my phonostages with thier idiosyncrasies are pared with thier arms and cartridges and I have no reasons to make any changes.

 I kind of understand what they tried to accomplish with the 90x. I am not quite sure now but it is possible that in context of everything else the 90x was a step back. I just propose it as a suggestion and I would not argue the subject. I do not see a lot of people to argue. I never heard any installation out there that would be able to fully handle what 901 could do. Whatever I systems with 901 I’ve heard they all where too week for the 901 output. So, today some people replace the 901 with 90x and suggest that 90x sound “more musical”. Is it “musical” or the 90x is juts generally slower and less bandwidth cartridge that is "more suitable" for the poor or limited installations?

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-18-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
starboy
Posts 23
Joined on 09-10-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 1010
Reply to: 860
Mystery, mastery or daylight robbery...?
I decided recently to add the Shelter 901 to my collection of 'Groove Riderz' and wondered what was the justification of the price hike for the 90X. Read the same review as yourself and thought that I learn't nothing other than someone's opinion with no stats and just the usual cost more gotta be better scenario.



Give me spec's I thought... The internet highway brought up nada.

The spec's you dropped Romy was what I was waiting for (thanks), but they didn't relate to the difference between $1500 and $2700 buckeroo's.


Shelter 901 Shelter 90X 
Voltage 0,5 mV at 1 kHz  0,6 mV at 1kHz
Magnet  Samarium cobalt and highly pure iron Neodymium
Coils  Highly pure copper 4N OFC
Stick  Aluminum coated Boron  Aluminum coated Boron
Body  Aluminum Anodized aluminum
Response  10–50.000  20-20.000
DCR 15 ohms 15 ohms
Separation 30 dB @ 1 kHz 25 dB @ 1 kHz
Needle Elliptical; 0,3 x 0,7 mil Elliptical; 0,3 x 0,7 mil
VTF  1.7 to 2,0 g 1.7 to 2,0 g
Weight  9,1 gram 9,7 gram

So the difference spec' wise is Anodized aluminium... The cost of an anodized exhaust against standard titanium for my sports bike is probably the difference of 100 bucks so it ain't there.

The coils ain't 24kt gold like the upper end Clearaudio's so it ain't there either methinks.

Samarium Cobalt v Neodymium. (see link)  http://amasci.com/neodemo.html

The cost of Neodymium can't be it either . (see link)  http://www.unitednuclear.com/magnets.htm

I can only conclude that the latter is harder to work with hence the extra $1200?

Maybe some metallurgist can spread some light.

And as for all the 'Usual Suspect' Audiongon types waiting for a low mileage for a $1000 and thinking they gots a bargain. There are stores in Nippon throwing 'em out at under $900 dollars new.

$900 v $2700

This isn't just about money but I aint gonna get shafted. Maybe one day I'll hear a 90X and think the outlay is justified. Really.

Regards and all the above are my opinion.
05-18-2005 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 1011
Reply to: 860
High-End Industry and cartridges.

cialis generikum

cialis helyett

 starboy wrote:
I decided recently to add the Shelter 901 to my collection of 'Groove Riderz' and wondered what was the justification of the price hike for the 90X. Read the same review as yourself and thought that I learn't nothing other than someone's opinion with no stats and just the usual cost more gotta be better scenario.
The price hike is very easy to understand. Before, the Shelter 901 was sold by Japanese for internal market only and the list price was ~$1200 and slightly fluctuated with the exchange rate. The street price for Shelter 901 was around $850. When I walked in the Tokyo store and asked a first salesperson I faced about Shelter 901 he wrote for me on a peace of paper $810 (not English spoke). Being a Jew I can’t buy anything without negotiation and I show him with my hands an international sight that I would like to pay less He instantaneously wrote for me $710. So, I paid $710 and pay attaining that I was just pedestrian from street and did not have any “connections” or special accommodations. I am sure that the local guys “who knows how to get it” probably pays around $550. At the very same time the American cunning dealer form NH was selling the Shelter 501 (list price in Japan $500) for $2700, marketing the cartridge under some flashy name like “Moses’ Circumcision” or something like this…. At that time Shelter 901 was not publicized by audio propaganda and had no hype in US. Since the Shelter gained the US publicity the “crafty” American importers were plugged into the game and consequentially the blood-sucking industry begin to suck money off the of the Shelter price. Somebody should pay for those bribes to the reviewers, advertising in those publications, sq footage of those demo rooms, gifts and accommodations, the extortionist fees that the Hi-Fi shows organizes impose to the expositioners... and many other “rules of the engagements”. However, the top Shelter’s price of ~$1200 was not able to pay mortgages at the 7 exit of Connecticut’s Route 95 – there was juts no overhead in the Shelter’s price for the US’s appetite. Also, the price of the 901 was compromised by many Japanese guys (Mr. Hashimoto for instance and few others) why use to sell the Shelters direct to US bypassing the typical industry extortions.  So, when Shelter introduce thier new 90x cartridge then the price included the necessity accommodations to feed all that leechlike industry distribution chains….
 starboy wrote:
Give me spec's I thought... The internet highway brought up nada.

The spec's you dropped Romy was what I was waiting for (thanks), but they didn't relate to the difference between $1500 and $2700 buckeroo's.

So the difference spec' wise is Anodized aluminium... The cost of an anodized exhaust against standard titanium for my sports bike is probably the difference of 100 bucks so it ain't there.

The coils ain't 24kt gold like the upper end Clearaudio's so it ain't there either methinks.

Samarium Cobalt v Neodymium. (see link)  http://amasci.com/neodemo.html

The cost of Neodymium can't be it either . (see link)  http://www.unitednuclear.com/magnets.htm

I can only conclude that the latter is harder to work with hence the extra $1200?

Maybe some metallurgist can spread some light.

And as for all the 'Usual Suspect' Audiongon types waiting for a low mileage for a $1000 and thinking they gots a bargain. There are stores in Nippon throwing 'em out at under $900 dollars new.

$900 v $2700

This isn't just about money but I aint gonna get shafted. Maybe one day I'll hear a 90X and think the outlay is justified. Really.
Well, I do not think that it is the issue about money or about the investigating the characteristics of the magnets. The 90x sounds different and this is all that counts. Dose it sound better or worse, this is the question. The only problem that I have with the “Saga about the Shelters” it is my selfishness.  You see, I usually, as anybody else, tip the waters in restaurants. However, the difficulties I have to give away those 20% for a good service when a couple people order 2 sandwiches with the total of $20 vs. the situation when the same couple people order a dinned with expansive wine with the total of $850. The point is that a water when she serves an bottle of $1.25 “Sprite” or the $750 bottle of “Chateau Mouton Rothschild Pauillac” form 1986 does accentually the very same job: go to kitchen and bring the damn liquid to the table. So, in case of puling form his storage the Shelter 901 the dealer put in his pocket $900x40%=$360, but if it was the Shelter 90x then it would be $2700x40%=$1080. Did the dealer provide any extra serviced for you for those $1080-$360=$720 of YOUR money? Did you see any dealer who actual knows ANYTHING objective about analog or can intelligently event to talk about analog? Did you see any dealer with well-performing analog installation? They will make up the “big eyes” and tell you the idiotic stories loading you with pure BS. (The record in here is belong the US’s Sumiko distributor who assured me that he set up for his 22 year of his business the…. 33.000 turntables!!! This means: 4 turntables per day, any day of his live… What an idiot!) But, did you try to demand from the industry a SERVICE. Get from a distributor a loan-cartridge and perhaps a loan optimized tonearm. Get from him 4-5 alternative cartridges… Ask him the objective recommendations about loading and optimization that would actualy MEAN something. How about this: if they turn to be wrong then… call your lower. Why not! If you pay $600 to your dentist and he removes a wrong tooth then we believe that it is OK to hold the dentist responsible. However, if a dealer made you to purchase Clearaudio cartridge for $10.000 that performs worst then a rusty Home Depot nail and that does not match your TT/tonearm then he juts was  "an audio professional”? I do not get this logic!  Perhaps if we hold the audio professionals to the same level liability as we do with any other professionals then we would not have among audio industry so many ignorant fools or so many escaped cons….

I know, I know all this rant sounds like a paranoiac foolishness on my part but… it is 21 century and do we have any other way to approach cartridges then just to buy them first and then to agree or to disagree with the rumors out there about their performance? If it’s so, then why do we pay 60%-40% of “industry mark up” - It does not look that we have chance to USE the industry when we select our cartridges? Do you tips the employee in a self-serving Chinese “all-you-can-eat” buffet if no one serves you and you should even to wash your own plates after you eat?

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
05-19-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
skushino
Seattle, WA
Posts 93
Joined on 07-07-2004

Post #: 7
Post ID: 1013
Reply to: 860
Re: High-End Industry and cartridges.
 Romy the Cat wrote:

marketing the cartridge under some flashy name like “Moses’ Circumcision” or something like this….

Romy - Where do you come up with this stuff?  It must have something to do with speaking english as a second language.  My Japanese girlfriend will come up with unique words to express herself - but not this colorful...  You crack me up!
05-19-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
starboy
Posts 23
Joined on 09-10-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 1014
Reply to: 1013
High-End or High Art?

does naltrexone show up on a drug test

naltrexone alcoholism medication
Okay, my point was not really the cost and not really even the magnets. (though I was surprised they were that cheap) Just the justification, but hey when has the 'high-end' needed any justification.

When I was a dreamy youth there was exotica out there at a price that made a kids jaw hit the floor. i.e. the Kiseki Lapis Lazuli, a cartridge built in some rare earth mineral stone or whatever but these were few and far between.

Now there is a onslaught of ultra high-end, high-art and high-priced cartridges that are supposed to stir the soul musically as well as visually. The visuals and sales talk of materials found only in a forest full of indigenous pygmies help the audio muppets credit-card to reach from his wallet to the counter.

Recently I heard in my system a Bluenote Baldinotti made by some Italian I have no intention of remembering. Basically it was a standard 103 that was 'tweaked' and made to look more exotic in his cross-eyed opinion. It actually sounded and looked worse and cost maybe 10x more.

Yep, your last paragraph was on the money. Poor suckerz have to buy these jewels armed with no more than a review of it in some other Audio Joes system or dem room situation. I can imagine the panic when after the running-in period it still sounds cr4p in his set-up.

So audio muppet logs onto Audiogon to dispose of it only to find that the same cart' is going for 60% less than purchase price, now on page 3 and no one still wants it. (The 901 on the other hand will lose 33% of its list price and you better log on/refresh every 30 minutes or it'll be gone before you left click. Go figure?)

Rant over, you may have guessed I rarely go near a dealer and if I do it's an in/out situation. They have done no more than help fuel a now over-priced industry. Who can say 'not' that in a couple of decades from now when all the Grumpy Old Audio Joes in this niche market drop dead that it won't go the way of the Dodo bird or that of the Panda Bear at the top end.

Regards

The term audio muppet is seen from the eyes of the dealer who must be laughing when Gonzo parts with that amount of loot.

Starboy aka The Grinch

All the above IMO......
05-25-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
starboy
Posts 23
Joined on 09-10-2004

Post #: 9
Post ID: 1033
Reply to: 1014
High-End, High Art and alas we must part...
I guess the infamous JerryS didn't like the 90x that much...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1122213293

Any takers boys...?

Regards

p.s. Hope the rave review he gave up helps to get his asking price.   ;-)
05-25-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 1034
Reply to: 1033
I call it: “The Reviewers Yellow Submarine”

 starboy wrote:
I guess the infamous JerryS didn't like the 90x that much... Hope the rave review he gave up helps to get his asking price. 
The more fascinating observation you would be able to make if you pay attention that the “infamous JerryS” sales beside his Reference Shelter 90x cartridge also his reference loudspeaker bult around the Fostex FE-168 Sigma full range driver. When JerryS wrote about the Shelter 90x's full-range capacity I was wondering how he was able to conclude it in context of the driver that is capable to handle sound somewhere only within the frequency range between 1500-4000Hz. This all reminds me Myles Astor who used the smallest Martin Logan fart-mashines and clamed that his turntable was picking the vibrations that was radiated by Russian submarines drifting in Atlantic Ocean….

:-)
Romy the caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
06-01-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Alex Yakovlev
NJ, US
Posts 45
Joined on 10-06-2004

Post #: 11
Post ID: 1048
Reply to: 860
Re: The Shelter 90X: mystery or mastery
 Romy the Cat wrote:
...We kept buying it in Japan directly and showed a big middle finger to all audio industry hoodlums...
Are you buying from Juki or do you know someone else? Juki is good but he specializes in things that are very different from my interests.
07-01-2005 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
starboy
Posts 23
Joined on 09-10-2004

Post #: 12
Post ID: 1126
Reply to: 1048
Re: The Shelter 90X: mystery or mastery
IMGP1595.JPG

Shelter's can be got from Tokyo stores at a lower price than the West but none I know of can export at that price point. Basically you need a friend/contact to get it for you.

This store has a good price and at times even lower...

http://store.yahoo.co.jp/audio-square/1028335401.html
02-21-2006 Post mapped to one branch of Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 13
Post ID: 2118
Reply to: 1126
More: Shelter 90X vs. 901

What I find interesting is that none of the Japanese store that sell cartridges for domestic marker sell the Shelter 90X. Who knows, perhaps the 90X is the big conspiracy between Shelter and US importers who decided to capitalize on the success of Shelter 901 but did not have a change to jack up the price for 901 and therefore they invented the 90X.

Interestingly that do presume that 90X and 901 have sonic differences but do they have beneficial sonic differences? I do not know the answer. The reviewers say that they do… playing their turntables via A/D processors and writing the RIAA curve on digital domain…

In the end, I had a good experience with 90X vs. 901 a few weeks back. I had a visitor. One of the 90X, 901dealers who sold huge number of them and who very confidently and very convincingly descries the differences between the 90X vs. 90. As far as I concern the guy is completely clueless about what he hears and what he understand in the heard. However, he spent a few hours to listing my installation, and I play to him stereo analog with Shelter 901. Then we went out to have a diner where he very assertively was taking about all imaginable aspects of sound, at least in the way how he understands it. I asked him about the 90X vs. 901, he but replied with the textbook phrases and then ask in a different format. I asked:

“The analog Sound that you juts hear in my room was coming from Shelter 901. Could you describe how different my sound would be if instead the 901 I would be using the 90X?”

Interestingly tat the guy knew that I have no problems to buy tomorrow 90X. However, he this time knew that if he would say their typical “90X has richer midrange” then I would immediately ask if he detected any problems with my current midrange. So, what the guy’s answer to me was quite unexpected for me, primary because it was one of the very few moments where a dealer says actually “True”. The guy said that he had no idea if I need Shelter 90X, and had no idea how my playback would sound differently if the Shelter 90X was used.

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-12-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 14
Post ID: 3133
Reply to: 860
Since I so like Shelters…

It just was brought to my attention that Shelters released 2 new cartridges: 7000 and 9000. They claim for both: New design technology. Newly designed body, high rigidity, improved front-yoke, larger diameter PC-OCC lead wires wound around the redesigned bobbin.

Shelter 7000 Phono Cartridge
Output voltage: 0.5 mV
Channel balance: Greater Than 0.8dB @1kH
Stylus tip: 0.3 x 0.7 mil elliptical nude diamond
Weight: 11 grams
DC resistance: 9 ohms
Tracking force: 1.4 to 2.0 grams
Load impedance: w/step up transformer 10 to 30 ohms, w/head amplifier within 100 ohms, high gain EQ - amplifier within 47 ohms
Price: $1,995.00



Shelter 9000 Phono Cartridge
Output voltage: 0.6 mV
Channel balance: Greater Than 0.8dB @1kH
Stylus tip: 0.3 x 0.7 mil elliptical nude diamond
Weight: 11 grams
DC resistance: 10 ohms
Tracking force: 1.4 to 2.0 grams
Load impedance: w/step up transformer 10 to 30 ohms, w/head amplifier within 100 ohms, high gain EQ - amplifier within 47 ohms
Price: $2,995.00

I never heard them but I wonder what those new Shelters are all about. Are they improve their cartridges of they capitalize on success of their 901 model. Shelters got a momentum in the end of 90s-begining of 2000 and now they are 6-7 yeas in “wide recognition”. Usually the normal “progress” of a high-end manufacturer suggests that a company that is 5-6 years successful should start produce crap, cashing -in it’s reputation and releasing economical and badly performing mass-market products under a mask of “New Design” and “improved performance”. Did anyone dealt with those new Shelters?

Also, I wonder if Shelters new cartridges design is better then does it mean the their older design was worst?

Rgs,
The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-18-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
starboy
Posts 23
Joined on 09-10-2004

Post #: 15
Post ID: 3517
Reply to: 3133
Seven Thousand
The 901 is to be replaced with the 7000 I've read. I would also guess that the 9000 will be the new 90X.

The 7000 is around 2000 dollars, here comes the cashing in.

The king is dead, long live the _____?

Rgds
01-18-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 16
Post ID: 3518
Reply to: 3517
The king is dead, long live the _____?

Well,

I certainly I do not deny to Shelter or to anyone else ability to make a “next model” better then “previous model”. The rules of the game dictate that each few new a new model should be introduced in order to arouse a new reviewing cycle. As I said it’s possible that that the new Shelter would be nice. Still my problem with all that saga that no one son of a bitch who comments positively about a new cartridge never made any negative or critical comments about the former cartridge BEFORE the new cartridge was introduced. If the new cartridge is “better” in something then the older cartridge was “worse” in something. It sounds to me highly unintelligent that mostly audio people acknowledge the imperfections of their former cartridge only after they exposed to a new model. I always say that if people do not know how it should be, or need to be to begin with then what is the purpose to go from one still breathing king to other new still breathing king...

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Alex Yakovlev
NJ, US
Posts 45
Joined on 10-06-2004

Post #: 17
Post ID: 6636
Reply to: 860
Loading Shelter 901.
What would be good place to start? I am using custom built 834P and S&B 103s. Also, my tonearm is 9-inch SME M2, should I put some additional weight on it?
Thank you.
02-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 18
Post ID: 6637
Reply to: 6636
A reasonable fork for cartridge loading.
Alex, a cartridge loading has no “right” absolute value, it has of courses a certain fork of right values but to loading of a cartridge up to one of a few Ohms would be depended from many parameters, in some instanced unexpected. In my hands, used as I use I load Shelter to 32K of loading resistor devised to transformer gain (625) = 51R. I think it is a little bit too heavy load compare to the Shelter’s recommendation but I feel that it works fine to me. I think 70R-90R would be a reasonable fork and then you can slide from there.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Alex Yakovlev
NJ, US
Posts 45
Joined on 10-06-2004

Post #: 19
Post ID: 6638
Reply to: 6637
How about weight?
Thank you, Romy. What about weight? My tonearm is probably too light in its original form?
02-13-2008 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,486
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 20
Post ID: 6640
Reply to: 6638
As any other needle of “complex” profile...
 Alex Yakovlev wrote:
Thank you, Romy. What about weight? My tonearm is probably too light in its original form?
I do not now the new SME tonearms. I have M12 but I never tried to get better sound out of it. Still I like heavy arms and SME always were mid mass arms. About the weight - it is also depends. A new 901 cartridge I play at 1.85g and up to 2g when it is getting worn… Still, they are my grams. Different scales measure at different height from platter, so the numbers might vary. The slightly negative VTA is also requires for Shelter 901. As any other needles of “complex” profile the Shelter 901 is very sensitive to… anything.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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