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  »  New  Where are our good phonostages?..  Omnigon Tubes...  Analog Playback Forum     61  440059  05-31-2004
  »  New  Another interesting corrector: Likhnitsky's RX correcto..  Again, the capacitors...  Analog Playback Forum     6  45344  02-10-2005
  »  New  Allnic Verito MC Phono Cartridge..  One more example...  Analog Playback Forum     3  32157  10-19-2009
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  »  New  The tales of two phonostages: Allnic and 834PT...  The tales of two phonostages: Allnic and 834PT....  Analog Playback Forum     0  14645  12-21-2011
07-11-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 4732
Reply to: 4732
The LCR RIAA correctors

Keith Cooper mentioned today the AllnicAudio’s 1500 phonostage in the Cessaro thread…

http://www.allnicaudio.com/E/e_pdt_ampli_H-1500%20II%20SE.html

I know the AllnicAudio, I use their tube sockets, and they are very good.  The AllnicAudio uses a pair of 417A for their phonostage. I am not a big fun of those tubes and 600R load for those little pentodes is too much but still it very much might be a good phone corrector.

The AllnicAudio in thir web site point out some shortcomings of different correction topologies – very superficially and they are not completely correct unfortunately. Regardless of it the subject of the LCR EQ is very interesting. I have one and I do like it a lot, although my personal “reference” corrector is not the LCR type.

Thorsten have eaten a dog on the LCR subject and his 7788 corrector was very good. I changed it for 7788-7721 and it was even better. I heard that Thorsten made the 10K LCR filter that should be very interesting but I did not follow the subject very close for years and I found “other solution” to deals with the problem of the constantly recharging feedback capacitors.

Another attractive company did a few years back a very interesting LCR phonocorrectors. It was the DaVinciAudio from Switzerland. In their initials version it was very cool but I heard nowadays they went for it’s commercial version, hugely simplified….

http://www.da-vinci-audio.com/Grandezza/grandezza.htm

I still generally very welcoming the LCR correctors, I wish it was more of them. There are a dozen companies about which I heard that do them. The Thorsten’s approach with 7788 at input is the more appealing to me (7788 has better sound and lower noise, particularly if to play with screen’s supply) but the 7788/E810F is not a tube that have any mass-commercial potential and therefore it is overlooked by the manufactures who dream to become a second BAT.

Anyhow, here is the Korean’s AllnicAudio attempt around the 417A/5842… I wonder if they paralleled the input tubes to drive the low impedance LCR filter?

Where are those 80dB of gains with my 2 stages only????!!!

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 5015
Reply to: 4732
Silk Audio LCR 10kOm RIAA EQ module

a Hong Kong-based company DIY Hifi Supply is selling RIAA EQ modules, the first modulesthat I have seen at 10kOm. It is something that Thorsten did not do commercially… but if the silks sound good then it might be VERY interesting. Is anyone knows anything about this company and about those modules? The 7788 with 10K load will be VERY cool thing to try….
 
http://www.diyhifisupply.com/diyhs_magnetics.htm

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 3
Post ID: 5017
Reply to: 5015
LCR phono
I heard the 'cole' LCR phono by the hifi supply recently at a friends house and it sounded ok, the Allnic 1500 that  I am using at the moment is the best phono I have heard, and the price is extremely reasonable for the design, valve regulated power supply etc. Did you manage to get in touch with MR Park ? Regards Keith.
08-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 5018
Reply to: 5017
A perfect load for ultra-high-transconductance tube.
It is not about the LCR phono as a concept – many companies manufacture the RIAA LCR constant impedance networks: Lundahl, Tango, S&B, Da Vinci, A-D, your Allnic looks like dose them as well. The LCR filter is not complex and any manufacturing house that does magnetics should be able to do it. However, whoever did it so far made the LCR filters with impedance of 600R. If you are wiling to make 2 stage phonocorrector with LCR filter between then the best sounding high-gain tubes available out there would not feel very comfy to drive 600R. The reported beauty of that Silk LCR is that it has 10K impedance and it would be a perfect load to any ultra-high-transconductance input tube…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-13-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 5
Post ID: 5019
Reply to: 5018
A real, working value?

I have read about but not heard the transformer RIAAs and the "No R" version (or was it "no C"?), and I have seen some fairly ingenious ways to try to keep impedance at a constant 600 Ohms.  But the 10k does pique my interest, because now we have the slack to make a real-life, semi-flexible gain stage that might not mess up the RIAA values.  Maybe stand off the tubes with diodes?  Hybrid cascode?

I can do OK with ~40 dB net, so two stages still seems like the reality, and probably the usual "sandwich", with the RIAA between the gain stages.  I don't get one gain stage.  Why/how would you do that, unless you just fed the signal to another gain box?

I'd like to try something like 1/2 of  a 6SN7, with that tone, but less going on internally.

The Da Vinci looks very cool, but I ass-u-me it's priced for punters only, didn't even check the price.

Lord knows, I need a few more transformers in my signal path...  another topic perhaps, but probably germane to this topic.

Best regards,
Paul S

10-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Celloman
Posts 1
Joined on 10-03-2007

Post #: 6
Post ID: 5504
Reply to: 5017
Why LCR phonos would be better than the other types of phonos ?
Hello Coops,

Can you explain more why the Allnic 1500 is the best phono you have heard, and why was it superior to the Cole LCR ?

What is the superiority of LCR-RIAA phonostages , besides having excellent RIAA correction curves ? What about their dynamic abilities (macro nd nuances), timbres, resolution and fluidity ?

Thanks.
10-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 7
Post ID: 5509
Reply to: 5504
Allnic 1500 LCR phono
Cello HI  I have only heard the Cole for a short time, so it wouldn't be fair to compare, also I really can't say to what extent the LCR circuit contributes to the sound of the 1500, the Allnic is very dynamic, has high resolution and makes instruments sound more like instruments , I am using the head amp with it at the moment and it is super, really super, worth a listen and not  high-end expensiveeeeeeeee.
10-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 5510
Reply to: 5509
To maintain some sanity on this site.
 coops wrote:
Cello HI  I have only heard the Cole for a short time, so it wouldn't be fair to compare, also I really can't say to what extent the LCR circuit contributes to the sound of the 1500, the Allnic is very dynamic, has high resolution and makes instruments sound more like instruments , I am using the head amp with it at the moment and it is super, really super, worth a listen and not  high-end expensiveeeeeeeee.
Coops,

it looks like you are repeating what you did in the Cessaro thread, staring without any rationale, in your posts the following: “Cessaro is the best speaker in the world”. Sure, you are perfectly entitled to do so, but for the sake of sanity you should mention that you are a reseller who trade Cessaro Horn and ALLNIC electronics. BTW, I have a guy live next door who works as a salesperson in Circuit City. His job is 8 hours per day to convince the visitors that the voice of God is transmitting to humans via a Yamaha receive…Do you want to argue with him? I do not question your message but I would like the messages to be delivered in a lucid framework.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 9
Post ID: 5512
Reply to: 5510
Allnic
Romy Hi, I only represent  Cessaro in the UK now  because I  honestly believe in them, I don't represent any other makes or manufacturers, Ralph introduced me to Allnic ( he had tracked down the designer Mr Park )we compared the amps to the usual suspects Zanden Wavac Air Tight etc and the Allnics were speedier had more punch and better resolution, can't sell them even if I wanted to because they havent passed the European CE compliance legislation , I am ceretainly not going to bang on about them on your forum, I do think Mr Park  has some interesting designs which are properly realised ,and the amps offer a lot for their relatively reasonable cost. Keith.
10-03-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 10
Post ID: 5513
Reply to: 5512
So far you are very silent.
 coops wrote:
Romy Hi, I only represent  Cessaro in the UK now  because I  honestly believe in them, I don't represent any other makes or manufacturers, Ralph introduced me to Allnic ( he had tracked down the designer Mr Park )we compared the amps to the usual suspects Zanden Wavac Air Tight etc and the Allnics were speedier had more punch and better resolution, can't sell them even if I wanted to because they havent passed the European CE compliance legislation , I am ceretainly not going to bang on about them on your forum, I do think Mr Park  has some interesting designs which are properly realised ,and the amps offer a lot for their relatively reasonable cost. Keith.
Keith, I do not think that I prohibited to anyone to “bang on” about anything, please do so. Be prepared also to deal with consequences if you do it at level of religious subscription or a professional loyally. I would be nice if you inform up front that you are the product’s representative. Also, be advised that so far you said nothing nether about Allnic nor about Cessaro. As a regional rep you might as well repeat what you was told by your world wide rep…


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 11
Post ID: 5516
Reply to: 5513
Cessaro and Allnic
Romy Hi, there is nothing to say really, I was trudging up the usual hifi route, ( B&W 800's usual high powered solid state amps Wink I thought a turntable upgrade would be the last step! Went to GT Audio to listen to Thomas Woschnicks turntable, gt is the UK Avantgarde distributor, I hadn't heard horns before there was something immediate about them, I liked very much, I posted a question on a UK forum, Guy Sargeant ( who occasionally posts here ) advised me to check out Cessaro , i wrote to Ralph kreabs ( Mr Cessaro )  Thomas Woschnick invited me over to Germany , I  didn't know but Thomas had met Ralph two years previously , heard Ralph's Gamma's and really thought them superb, he said he couldn't sleep for a week1 Ralph agreed to design a smaller speaker for Thomas' room , I didn't realise the as well as hearing Thomas' turntables I would also be listening to the Alpha horns. Ralph also visited that weekend he bought the first piece of Allnic the 1500 phono, which we compared with Thomas' resident phono stage. Thomas has a great system the speakers sounded wonderful, I decided to buy a pair on the spot, sold my B&W's the next day. Ralph said he would make a pair for the Munich Hi-end show and we could bring them back to the UK together, Ralph just wanted someone who really liked the speaker to represent them ,rather than the usual dealer who will sell anything if the margin is big enough. Having heard Ralph's system ( gamma ) I would buy them in a moment but although I might be able to afford the speakers I can't afford a house in London big enough to put them in!
Yours sincerely,Keith.
10-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 12
Post ID: 5518
Reply to: 5516
The Alnick RCL phonostage's guts.

Keith,

I do not know why you go crazzy over it. All that is necessary is juts to mention that you are distributing given audio equipment and it would be it….

Anyhow, the Alnick RCL phonostage, the H-1500 II SE one, do you know anything about it? It has 3 WE417A tube per channel and it looks like a follower. The WE417A are high gain (If I am not mistaken 30 times) and 3 stages can easily do 66dB. Dose Alnick use all 417A as gain stages or they parallel them to drive low impedance RCL filter? In such case do they use a step up transformer to get MC gain? If they do use transformers then who made for them the magnetics? Is any further topological information is available on the Alnick unit? What is the retail price for the H-1500 II SE correctors?  Also, since given corrector is MKII then what was in the MKI? And the last thing. How people can try this phonostage?

Rgs, Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 13
Post ID: 5520
Reply to: 5518
Allnic and Cessaro
Romy Hi, I just didn't want you to think that i was just another hifi dealer , I just really liked the speakers, re the Allnics innards I will forward your question  to  Ralph at Cessaro he is the international distributor, I do know that Mr Park winds all his own transformers including the LCR modules, the 1500 with valve regulated supply retails in the UK for approx £2500 , Jeff catalano may be handling them in the US, he is in New York ,Highwater Sounds, very best wishes,Keith. 
10-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,157
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 14
Post ID: 5527
Reply to: 5520
But can you tell your subjective impressions of the gear?
Coops, this thread is sort of long considering we still haven't gotten anything about your own personal impressions of the sound of any of the gear you have chosen.  Even if your objective was only to announce/generate interest in the gear - and I am not saying that this is the case - as of yet there has been naught from you that gives a good sense of what you are talking about in the only terms that really matter to a listener, namely the sound.  Some technical info is always nice to help digest the impressions, and some context is pretty important, too, if you can and will.

Surely you can use descriptors other than superlatives to share your impressions of this stuff?  Also, when you went from your former gear to this gear, what were your specific reasons?  It would sure be nice if you would compare and contrast.

Usually "exotic" gear sellers take one of two approaches: either "The Rob Report" - an all out blitz that includes great photography and purple prose from drooling reviewers, momentos for seekers; or, there is the "Try To Find Us" approach, which seems always to inspire uncontrollable lust in a pretty predictable percentage of the punters.  When you popped up, I hoped that you might be more forthcoming and informative, since your products do appear superficially interesting.

Best regards,
Paul S
10-04-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 15
Post ID: 5530
Reply to: 5527
Cessaro
Paul Hi, I don't consider myself a dealer, just an enthusiast, I just wanted to discover just what was possible with audio replay, Thomas Woschnicks system (whee i first heard the Alpha's ) was just more real more like real life than anything I had before, the sound was more immediate, living breathing real. Horns as you know excite the air in the room, the bass is more like a double bass' bass breathing, in comparison the B&W's sounded incredibly boxy, the sound emanating from two points, the sound wa veiled and dull, just as though a potato sack had been thrown over the speaker. When we first installed the Alpha's I was runnnig them with an ASR Emitter a large German SS integrated, it had been fine with the B&W's but it sounded flat and lifeless withthe horns. I started to look at valve amps, Thomas W uses  a KR 1610 power amp , the Alpha's aren't that efficient  98db ( the bigger cessaro's are much more efficient ) . Ralph suggested I try the Allnics, and so far i haven't heard anything better, in fact tsome of the 'big names' have been rather disappointing nice casework though!
I was fortunate enough to spend the week at the Munich hi end show, and after a few days at Ralph's listening to his Gamma's , which are like the Alpha's but just more! Pleas if you have any specific questions drop Ralph a line through the Cessaro website, he is fanatical about music .
10-15-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 16
Post ID: 11968
Reply to: 5518
Alnic H-1500 Phonostage
fiogf49gjkf0d

Recently I was visiting a guy who has Alnic H-1500 LCR Phono stage. I actually had a chance to open it up and to inspect it.

http://www.allnicaudio.com/eng/products/view.htm?brandcode=0010040000000002&page=1

I would say that I like what I saw and how it sounded. It was not might playback and I do not know if it truly did what I would like a Phonostage to do but the initial superficial feel was very positive. The Alnic H-1500 has a pair of paralleled 417A driving output stage. I did not trace which the E282F of 417A in input and which is used as driver. It would be fun if the Alnic’s LCR would be high impedance then the input stage would drive the filter directly, skipping the driver stage all together.

Nevertheless it looks like an interesting phonostage. Too bad I do not care about phonostage anymore or I would bring it home to try…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-16-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
montepilot


Boston, MA.
Posts 42
Joined on 12-13-2007

Post #: 17
Post ID: 11973
Reply to: 11968
Re; Allnic Phono stage
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy,  why not get this guy's phono stage to try so we all can benefit from an unbiased opinion of its performance?

Rgs,

montepilot


"It's like an act of murder; you play with the intent to commit something"--Duke Ellington
10-16-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 18
Post ID: 11974
Reply to: 11973
Allnic LCR
fiogf49gjkf0d
David beetles is the US distributor, I am sure he would send you one for evaluation, 'hammertone audio' get him to send you the head amp too, that is also worth a listen.Keith.
10-16-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,545
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 19
Post ID: 11975
Reply to: 11974
Not so minimum stages phonostage
fiogf49gjkf0d

Thanks, Keith and Montepilot.

I did have my 7788-7721 phonostage with LCR filter and I always liked it, pay attention - it was 68dB gains with just two stages and with NO step-up transformer.  Allnic  Phono is 3 stages with step-up transformer. Still Allnic might be a good phonostage but I see no personal motivation to “evaluate” it. It is not become I feel anything is wrong with Allnic. I just have a phonostage that I feel comfortable and I have zero itch to look for anything else.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-16-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
perrew
Posts 30
Joined on 10-06-2009

Post #: 20
Post ID: 11977
Reply to: 11975
Allnic passive vs. Active
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy,one thing that interest me is you use an active RIAA and the Allnic is passive circuit if I understood things?
Page 1 of 3 (58 items) Select Pages:  1 2 3 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Where are our good phonostages?..  Omnigon Tubes...  Analog Playback Forum     61  440059  05-31-2004
  »  New  Another interesting corrector: Likhnitsky's RX correcto..  Again, the capacitors...  Analog Playback Forum     6  45344  02-10-2005
  »  New  Allnic Verito MC Phono Cartridge..  One more example...  Analog Playback Forum     3  32157  10-19-2009
  »  New  An interesting Russian pnonocorrector...  Uber-tweeky phono topologies deconstructed...  Analog Playback Forum     9  57051  03-01-2010
  »  New  Van den Hul 's Grail..  Van den Hul 's Grail...  Analog Playback Forum     0  13796  09-30-2010
  »  New  The tales of two phonostages: Allnic and 834PT...  The tales of two phonostages: Allnic and 834PT....  Analog Playback Forum     0  14645  12-21-2011
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