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02-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
be
Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts 86
Joined on 02-11-2007

Post #: 41
Post ID: 12946
Reply to: 12940
S. arm
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Rakesh.

I understand your point, but Helsingør is 40km from here and fortunately I am not married.

My ex wives are fine. I maintain a positive relationship with most of them and our children.

Hm..  So you suspect your Italian wife is planning to get kidnapped? Do not worry unnecessarily much about that, you are witty, have excellent social abilities and I bet that you, on top of that, are a good ballroom dancer.

Probably it is just an idea she implanted in your head to have some leverage.

Best regards

be
02-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 42
Post ID: 12947
Reply to: 12945
Virus inside
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

I think it is wider then just Schroeder arms. Did you see ANY discussions about the Sonic Quality of hyped products? 

No. the typical audiophile has the following tatoo onto his forehead "I-buy-I-Am"

 Romy the Cat wrote:

 you pay attention that they do not exist? I mean the herded morons constantly believe that they talk about Sound but in reality they just recite the artificial taking points were given to them by the people who light up the hype.

My Grandpa (God bless him) told me once: "Treat an Idiot like an Idiot. When you explain something, you will confuse him"

That sentence makes the Audiophile life easier with products like, LP12, Garrard, Schroeder, Koetsu, Clearaudio...." and the latest "Faschisto" group, Raven Turntables

 Romy the Cat wrote:

 I have seen zillion exemplas and I do have very high sensitivity to distinct an original thinking about Sound from the empty-headed semantic blabbering about audio where words have no sensed meaning (90% of all conversations by audio people).

"blabbering" is the blood pumping through the body of an Audiophile.

They have absolutely no idea from "High end" but they know exactly from what they talk.

 Romy the Cat wrote:
Saying all of it in the Schroeder thread I do not insist that nether Frank Schroeder or his arms are subordinates of the above mention percentage. As I told above I have my rational do not give damn about anything Schroeder-related. The fact that Schroedists admiration I have heard about are coming from the sleaziest scams do not help to the Schroeder tonearms.

The Cat
Each is own. When I met one of those guys I go 2 steps back and I will refuse to shake hands. I know they have a virus inside.It is easy to get, very hard to fight against and well known, its name is "KNAPOI"*

* Know-nothing-and-proud-of-it


Kind Regards
Stitch
02-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 43
Post ID: 12948
Reply to: 12947
Rambling thoughts on a rambling thread. And moving generally.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Hi everyone,

As I said, I never intended to be the advocate of the devil. Now that this thread seemed to have resolved that the Shroder tonearm is either over-hyped, or at any rate that its  manufacturer is beneath contempt because of his association with OMA, it seems people have moved on to a much wider ranging issue. By the way, for the sake of fairness, and to avoid ambiguity, I would like to say that my unqualified view is that Frank Shroder should stand or fall on the basis of the merits or demerits of his tonearms, not his business associations, unless Mr. Weiss is, and it is clear that this is the case, so beneath the acceptable norms that no one in their right mind or with a modicum of decency should associate with him.

Romy wrote:

I think it is wider then just Schroeder arms. Did you see ANY discussions about the Sonic Quality of hyped products? Did you pay attention that they do not exist? I mean the herded morons constantly believe that they talk about Sound but in reality they just recite the artificial taking points were given to them by the people who light up the hype. I have seen zillion exemplas and I do have very high sensitivity to distinct an original thinking about Sound from the empty-headed semantic blabbering about audio where words have no sensed meaning (90% of all conversations by audio people).

Saying all of it in the Schroeder thread I do not insist that nether Frank Schroeder or his arms are subordinates of the above mention percentage. As I told above I have my rational do not give damn about anything Schroeder-related. The fact that Schroedists admiration I have heard about are coming from the sleaziest scams do not help to the Schroeder tonearms.

Since this thread has moved somewhat from its initial heading, I would think that the topic now under 'scrutiny', that is the duplicitous nature of all discussion surrounding hyped products, would seem to merit its own thread. I agree with some of the views stated above, but not in the absolute terms in which they are put.

I know for a fact that if I were to stand accused of such a charge, a number of unpalatable facts would come to light about me, and I would have to hang my head in disgrace. I do read a fair number of the unappetizing press, whether originating from the UK, the US and continental Europe. I have made purchases more than once on the basis of some of these ‘hyped’ recommendations, specially cartridges, tonearms and analogue playback devices, since  these are rather hard to have demonstrated satisfactorily at home or at shows. And yes, I have eventually sold 90% of the ‘moronified’ components I bought on the basis of these various reviews, hyped opinions by industry  cheerleaders etc. Often then I have learnt the hard way.

“A sadder and a wiser man

 He rose the morrow morn”

The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, ST Coleridge

My gained wisdom on the ‘morrow morn’ still has not prevented me from making these same mistakes all over again. I do show more caution than previously, at least I hope so. If anyone has a burning desire to know what I envisage as my next blind purchase – it would be the OPPO 83SE to use as a source in my home cinema system (they are not represented in the UK), and possibly the SME312s to compare to my current previous generation SMEs. This will be in the summer when I have completed a couple of property purchases in the next few months with a view to moving to France permanently or semi-permanently someday. In some ways, Romy, your present circumstances mirror mine although we differ so much in our views, attitudes and pretty much everything else I imagine.

For about a year now, I have been preparing for the possibility that I may decide to move at some point in time. My approach has been somewhat different to that advocated at a number of places in the relevant thread, based on past experience with movers. Since that thread has now moved on, and this one is rambling aimlessly, I will include my advice here about moving companies and movers – never trust them, as it is enough for a rogue element to be present for the worst to happen. I have dedicated custom, heavily padded, boxes, some with secure individual compartments for delicate  accessories etc. made for everything that I want to keep long-term. These boxes are made here on the premises and will withstand the rigours of travel. Some of them have industrial strength lockable caster wheels to facilitate movement of rather heavy equipment. I use reliable people I trust, who know me and my equipment well, to become movers for a day when it comes to moving all the delicate and vulnerable components/stuff. The boxes are sturdy but can be completely dismantled when not in use. In this way, I know I will be ready to move easily, and again as and when the need arises. This plan has now been in motion for about 5 months and is about 70-80% complete I would say.

All the best

Rakesh
02-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 44
Post ID: 12949
Reply to: 12948
Some clarification.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Rakesh, before everything: you use MS Word to type messages and it has some strange styling formatting that My Word cleaning server scrip cannot clean. As the result your posts screw formatting of my site. I was trying to research what style items are guilty but I did not find it right the way and I do not have time nowadays for deeper anises. So, it would greatly be useful if you in future paste your post from ASCII editor. Alternatively, after you paste your text from MS Word to my text box you might use a button “Clean MS Word HTML” on the right of the reply toolbar (it was a big blue “W”). That shall kill all your “odd” formatting and then you might “paint” the text with my editor tools.

 oxric wrote:
As I said, I never intended to be the advocate of the devil. Now that this thread seemed to have resolved that the Shroder tonearm is either over-hyped, or at any rate that its  manufacturer is beneath contempt because of his association with OMA, it seems people have moved on to a much wider ranging issue.

Rakesh, not one say, at least I did not say, that Shroder tonearm over-hyped. What I insists that the people who sell them in US are not only known to be the over-hype providers but they has no other skills or qualification then hype management.  I hope you recognize the difference.

 oxric wrote:
By the way, for the sake of fairness, and to avoid ambiguity, I would like to say that my unqualified view is that Frank Shroder should stand or fall on the basis of the merits or demerits of his tonearms, not his business associations, unless Mr. Weiss is, and it is clear that this is the case, so beneath the acceptable norms that no one in their right mind or with a modicum of decency should associate with him.

Why who cares about Frank Shroder? This thread is not judgment over him, and I do not think he shall care about anybody makes any judgment. This thread turned out to be into my rejection of anything Frank Shroder does or say JUST BECAUSE his association with Jonathan Weiss. You deny my right to walk out of room and loose my interest if I see let say Nazi swastika of KKK hood? Why you deny my rights to behave the same if I feel the stench of the Weiss-ness? (Again, do not behave like a infant, it has absolutely nothing to do with Frank Shroder being German, like Germany and have no problem with Germans.)

 oxric wrote:
Since this thread has moved somewhat from its initial heading, I would think that the topic now under 'scrutiny', that is the duplicitous nature of all discussion surrounding hyped products, would seem to merit its own thread. I agree with some of the views stated above, but not in the absolute terms in which they are put.

The absolute term? Oxric, are you under impression that a normal person would be searching the absolute term in this (or any other) site? absolute terms are the subject of fulfillment of own requirement and it might not be found outside…

 oxric wrote:
If anyone has a burning desire to know what I envisage as my next blind purchase – it would be the OPPO 83SE to use as a source in my home cinema system (they are not represented in the UK), and possibly the SME312s to compare to my current previous generation SMEs. This will be in the summer when I have completed a couple of property purchases in the next few months with a view to moving to France permanently or semi-permanently someday. In some ways, Romy, your present circumstances mirror mine although we differ so much in our views, attitudes and pretty much everything else I imagine.

Rakesh, I have completely different approach to “tonearms purchasing”, or to the purchasing of any new audio. Pay attention that I asked Frank Schroder only one question and he gave quote foolish answer, ironically the very same answers that Weiss would give. This did not escape my attention even if I did not comment on it.

 oxric wrote:
For about a year now, I have been preparing for the possibility that I may decide to move at some point in time. My approach has been somewhat different to that advocated at a number of places in the relevant thread, based on past experience with movers. Since that thread has now moved on, and this one is rambling aimlessly, I will include my advice here about moving companies and movers – never trust them, as it is enough for a rogue element to be present for the worst to happen. I have dedicated custom, heavily padded, boxes, some with secure individual compartments for delicate  accessories etc. made for everything that I want to keep long-term. These boxes are made here on the premises and will withstand the rigours of travel. Some of them have industrial strength lockable caster wheels to facilitate movement of rather heavy equipment. I use reliable people I trust, who know me and my equipment well, to become movers for a day when it comes to moving all the delicate and vulnerable components/stuff. The boxes are sturdy but can be completely dismantled when not in use. In this way, I know I will be ready to move easily, and again as and when the need arises. This plan has now been in motion for about 5 months and is about 70-80% complete I would say.

Thanks, I have devised a very good in my view moving strategy and have find good movers that I feel comfortable. I will report the results in the appropriate there after they move me and will bend all my tonearms…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-16-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Axel
South Africa
Posts 80
Joined on 07-18-2009

Post #: 45
Post ID: 12953
Reply to: 12949
"Only shallow people...
fiogf49gjkf0d
do not judge by appearances..." O.W.

I have followed this thread for some time and the only other thing comes to mind:
"It is a sign of a higher intellect not to pursue an argument..."

Now go figure :-)
Axel
02-17-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 46
Post ID: 12966
Reply to: 12949
Using MS Word and how planctons discourse shrewdly on matters of exposition
fiogf49gjkf0d

  Romy wrote:
Rakesh, before everything: you use MS Word to type messages and it has some strange styling formatting that My Word cleaning server scrip cannot clean. As the result your posts screw formatting of my site. I was trying to research what style items are guilty but I did not find it right the way and I do not have time nowadays for deeper anises. So, it would greatly be useful if you in future paste your post from ASCII editor. Alternatively, after you paste your text from MS Word to my text box you might use a button “Clean MS Word HTML” on the right of the reply toolbar (it was a big blue “W”). That shall kill all your “odd” formatting and then you might “paint” the text with my editor tools.

Romy,

I did not realise using MSWord had these consequences. Maybe that's very obvious to all the savvy 'forum members' here, I am still getting to grip using the 'reply' tools on this forum. In the future, I will not use MS Word. I tend to use it as it's a more natural environment for me and allows me to organise my thoughts better. My first language is not english, so I join the legions of visitors to your website who according to Jonathan Weiss, 'don't read English too well.' This is what he has to say, in a singularly isolated thread entry dated December 20, 2009, which can be found in full below for your delectation should you be so inclined:
http://oswaldsmillaudio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=403.0

 Jonathan Weiss wrote:
Now, the reason I bring up a thread about my favorite AntiChrist (Romy) is that I find it so unbelievable, so incredibly amusing, that this guy has any followers at all, given his level of expertise, and I'm completely ignoring the issue of his "exposition." It is of course amazing that people would turn to a guy who uses that kind of vocabulary to discuss people and things, but perhaps most of the visitors to his site don't read English too well. Nonetheless, and this is my point, how can anyone take this Moron seriously when he writes something like the following in a thread about the Schroeder arms,

I presume his meaning is that your website contributors, or followers as he calls them (interesting thought that, would I qualify as a 'follower'), who for some reason, are unable to read english 'too well,' would have even  more serious problems expressing their thoughts, thereby suffering the same problems to a lesser or greater degree, as yourself, in terms of exposition. Does anyone here know the sort of qualifications that Mr. Weiss possesses, which make him such a rare authority on matters of the English language and relating to discourse, and which eventually led to his present position in life as a shopkeeper?

Mr. Weiss seems to enjoy the level of intelligence and subtlety of expression one would expect to find in a plancton, and as we know one may wait a long while for evolution to finesse its handiwork here.

Regards
Rakesh

02-18-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 47
Post ID: 12967
Reply to: 12966
To finish with the Weiss
fiogf49gjkf0d
Rakesh,

the subject of Jonathan Weiss is not worth for me to argue it. I too much know on the Weiss to have an interest about it. All that I will say to finish it that the asshole was spending days and night reading my site, stealing positions and views and repackaging them and his. Thanks God he does not understand what he repeat after others.  Weiss was kissing my ass up to a few years ago when I visited him. I was critical about what he demonstrated and the most important about his sense of absolute misdirection and references guidance. Jonathan got so scared that it was pity to look at him.  It kind of funny as I always critical to analyze of system’s sound when I visit people. The difference is that I am VERY specific and VERY practical in my critiques and I am pointing out the specific issuers. The people who know me know it as it never a problem with normal people.  With Weiss it was amassing – he got so panicky that was not able to talk (and not kidding ) or to understand what was told to him. Over the entire day the only sensible reaction I saw on his face was his expression when I told him that it is my private visit and it will not be exposed publicly.  The guy got so excited like it was his second birthday! I thought – what is primitive idiot! (You will not see at my site any of my comments about my visiting of private installations). Still he was not comfortable with the situation that I did not join his “club”  and literally at the next day he begun dump on internet his comments accusing me that I raped his wife, murdered his grandma  and robed his house. All of it just because he was afraid that I mention somewhere that he is a very accidental and very empty person in audio 0 this is how the mind of those people work.  Well, I did not kill his grandma but I wish she made an abortion in order the dirt never was ever born.

Taking about the subject of this thread - Frank Schroder endorses and patronizes this piece of lifeform with his business. Knowing it, I do not care how good or bad the Schroder’s tonearms are and I wish both of them - Schroder and Weiss to die with their pathetic secrets (Murray Abraham’s quote from “The Ritz”)

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-18-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 48
Post ID: 12968
Reply to: 12967
Performance?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Just a few lines to the "Performance" of this piece of wood on strings for 7k $

I listened to the Schroeder Reference + SQ and some custom made ones which were normally not available (Schroeder model blahblah with Valhalla cable etc.)
(of course you can get them as a special item and you rave about it wherever possible....)
I prefer Top performance, that's why I make comparisons, I don't talk about artifacts which are necessary to compensate the flaws from the system in general.
Comparisons were made against
Triplanar VII
Kuzma Airline
Kuzma 4P
FR-64s
SME 3012R
Graham (2.0 / 2.2  + Phantom)
DaVinci 10" + 12"


all was done with multi Arm Turntables, same cabling, same Phonostage, always same cartridge in comparison, different cartridges (Lyra Skala, Titan i, Zyx UNIverse, Shelter 90x, Zyx 100FS, Koetsu RSP... etc.) to cross check the results....

To all these Arms the results are identical: Lack in the high frequency area and a bass without power, a dominant midrange (comparable to a Koetsu cartridge)

Loss in Detail, specially with some more demanding classic Records (Decca SXL...), Unable to hold the setting for a longer time...
Comparable to a Koetsu it can be an advantage to soften a shrill, analytic Playback System when the owners wants to have the analog "warmth" by ignoring some frequency areas...the typical compensation in High End today.
And the final "Quality comment" from Audiophiles "But I like it" is fine, but has nothing to do with real Performance.

And FAR away from a Pysical Presence some of the other Arms can offer (not all, but some)
When you read customer comments about that, you will always find that and of course, that this Arm changes the setting depending on weather.
and you will always find responses  - guess from whom - a la

- "the Arm was not matched to that used Cartridge"
- "the Cartridge is not the right one for that Arm"
- "send me back that Arm, I will make a different tube for that Cartridge"
- "the turntable is not good enough for that Arm"
- "the System is not good enough for that Arm"
- "the customer is not good enough for that Arm" (= unexperienced)
- "the Listening room was not good enough for that Arm"
- "the writer can't afford the arm and is jealous"
- and so on and on and on

I have no problem with that, there are lots of units out there I would not touch and the owners are happy with it, but the self-loving nonsens to tell the world, that this crap is better than the seriously made Arms out there, is a joke.
And the next, when there is a discussion about that in Audiogon /Audio Asylum etc. and some write about the "Design flaws" from this Tourist Guide in Berlin (his real profession), after a while all is deleted.
Big Brother is watching you.
And after some time the History will be "re-written"

I have no experience with Mills Audio, but when I read that, I think, yes, those two match.


Kind Regards
Stitch
02-18-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
be
Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts 86
Joined on 02-11-2007

Post #: 49
Post ID: 12969
Reply to: 12968
Comparing tonearms.
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Stich.

Could you, if you have the time, tell about your impressions of the arms you mention?

Regards
be
02-18-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 50
Post ID: 12970
Reply to: 12968
The predictable “Whorish Fear Marketing”.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Stitch,

You outlined very nicely the pattern that exists with quite many products in audio, I call it Whorish Fear Marketing I can’t say that the same happens with Schroeder arms. I just do not know as I never paid any attention to those arms. Jonathan Weiss wais is one of the strong proponents of the Whorish Fear Marketing and as I learned that there is Weiss- Schroeder alliance then I lost any interest to Schroeder arms. I know from many-many examples and from many people that in order to be “linked” by Jonathan Weiss a product, person or event shall have a very specific Whorish Identity and very recognizable performing level. They are vampires of audio and very much abhor anything they are able defecate out of their empty brain.

Again, all of this is not about Mr. Schroeder or his arms. However, he absolutely voluntary embrace all this crap that Weiss is and therefore his is an accomplice of the Whorish Fear Marketing. Does a manufactures who has respect to itself and has an able, self-demonstrable product needs to use the Whorish Fear Marketing? I do not think so. O do not think that there is a personal relation between Schroeder and Weiss – their relation is biasness and is based upon the fact that Schroeder need the fucking retards of Weiss-level to create noise about his tonearms.

This is how they operate and this is who apparently they are. This is the reason why I discard the Schroeder tonearms juts from the fact that Mr. Schroeder is associated with Jonathan Weiss and looking at the “type” of the people who report “for” and “against” the Schroeder arms I see not unexpected discrepancy.

The only valuable foe myself history lesson I took after Jonathan Weiss visit was Jonathan’s quote. It was where we were sitting in his listening rooms and I was making one of few very fruitless attempts to explain to him why his speaker to sound in the why they are.  Jonathan was listening but I saw that he did not understand what I was saying to him. I asked him and he discerned what I was talking about. He replied: “People out there might be very surprised to learn that I have absolutely no clue about audio and have very little understanding how the things work”. This was actually his quote and it is not taking out of context. Listening what he was saying about audio, listening about his interests in music and sound reproduction it was very self-evident that he is very accidental and very primitive participant of audio. If Mr. Schroeder feels that this level of people are a proper re-presentation of his views then anathema to Mr. Schroeder and he can stick his arms in own ass.

Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-18-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 51
Post ID: 12972
Reply to: 12970
“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21).
fiogf49gjkf0d
The above quotation from the New Testament, according to the most common interpretation which is of interest to me here, says we should  distinguish between temporal and spiritual authority. I am not religious but it just came to mind.

We seem to be back where it all started.

There is a fine line between having a righteous cause and being so intent on attacking an individual that it becomes a torrent of abuse and invectives from which no sensible discussion can emerge. There are many such lines of morality which are crossed in our everyday dealings with people for which we have no redress and to use your faculties, your website, and your readers, even if only in part for that purpose demeans yourself, your website and your readers, in my humble unsolicited opinion. That is all I have to say on this subject and may it die a well-deserved death.

If someone wants to discuss the hype that accompanies some products and the point where it ceases to be legitimate marketing practice and becomes a purposeful and reprehensible attempt at misrepresenting one's products and deceiving the customer, please start another thread. The subject of the Shroder tonearm clearly will never be productively scrutinised on this site, so leave it be, I would suggest, and do not use one lame pretext after another to restart it.
 

Regards
Rakesh
02-18-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 52
Post ID: 12973
Reply to: 12972
The truth about the Schroeder tonearms
fiogf49gjkf0d

 oxric wrote:
If someone wants to discuss the hype that accompanies some products and the point where it ceases to be legitimate marketing practice and becomes a purposeful and reprehensible attempt at misrepresenting one's products and deceiving the customer, please start another thread. The subject of the Shroder tonearm clearly will never be productively scrutinised on this site, so leave it be, I would suggest, and do not use one lame pretext after another to restart it.

I think that everything that need to be know about the Schroeder tonearms does exist in this thread, I am not kidding.  Oxric, what kind scrutiny you expected? Do you expect somebody to install the arm on TT and report on it’s sound?  The very first question I would ask who was the person what was in his head (his sonic and cultural references). Let agree – you will not allow a blind driver to drive your daughter to ballet class.  (Here I am again with my associations!) You would demand some credential to the people who serve your, write? You for instance would not hire a contractor to fix your pluming if you know that the contractor associated with criminals who burglarize houses. Why in such case you feel that I am not a position to discard a company juts because they associated with audio-criminals and use filthy methods to propel own interests? Let me give you a clue – the answer is: they (Schroeder) most likely  have a need for this type product distribution. Think about it and then decide for yourself how much ”irrelevant” this thread to the Schroeder tonearms.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-18-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
tuga


Posts 174
Joined on 12-26-2007

Post #: 53
Post ID: 12974
Reply to: 12972
Emotional involvement
fiogf49gjkf0d
It's amazing how so many intelligent people are unable refrain their emotions towards certain objects (and industry players in general, like manufacturers and reviewers), in the very "loving" attitude that prevents them from approaching and discussing the tool rationally.

But what puzzles me the most is why many of these hifi/camera/watch/car/gear "infatuated" people invest so much in defending "their" brand and so little in learning about the objects and putting them to judicious and creative use.

Cheers,
Ric


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes
02-18-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 54
Post ID: 12975
Reply to: 12974
It has absolutely nothing to do with emotional involvement.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 tuga wrote:
It's amazing how so many intelligent people are unable refrain their emotions towards certain objects (and industry players in general, like manufacturers and reviewers), in the very "loving" attitude that prevents them from approaching and discussing the tool rationally.

But what puzzles me the most is why many of these hifi/camera/watch/car/gear "infatuated" people invest so much in defending "their" brand and so little in learning about the objects and putting them to judicious and creative use.

I think it has absolutely nothing to do with emotional involvement but it rather comes from sense of action. A person who knows what he or she does perfectly welcomes critiques and looks forward to use collaborate with critiques. Any creative person would love to see the result of his/her efforts seriously analyzed and seriously assessed. The seriousness of analyses is the key and what is done properly it is very valuable for anybody. In contrary, the people who are idiots and who have no sense of action or idea of what they do, they do not understand the critique’s objective and the analyses’ motives. In case of Jonathan Weiss and the majority of the similar to him empty-headed marketing idiots there is no slightest understanding what and why they do the things and what they are trying to accomplish. All that those people have is just repeating somebody else’s phases without even understanding what they are saying. This is why when they exposed to any besides slaverush ass-kissing they god scared as they need to spend 10 month of internet browsing to learn what the hell they were told. I am not kidding - this is how this work with people who are clueless.

BTW, this is not only in audio, this how the things works everywhere. With some of my former clients where I was in position to interview and to higher developers I never torched them a barrage of technically different questions. I usually asked a “loaded” question with a conditional (this is the key) answer, was given a single answer and informed the candidate that the answer was incorrect. Then I observed the reaction. Among all people the only people who truly knew what they know/do were able to rise protest defending own answer. What is always important to me was not the rightness of the answer but the LEVEL at which a candidate was able to defend his/her view and the depth of own horizons into which s/he able to dig defending own position. I am very proud by the fact the any single person I even hired was phenomenal, in many case better then myself.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-04-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
wjam


The French Alps
Posts 7
Joined on 01-04-2011

Post #: 55
Post ID: 15375
Reply to: 12975
Idiot by association
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Romy,

The thing is.. Mr Schroeder is making a living and as such (being someone who needs to make a living in order to pay for stuff), he may from time to time have to associate himself with people that will facilitate this ability to help him pay for stuff in his everyday life.

If no-one made audio stuff for a living then you wouldn't be making a lot of music on your stereo.

So it has to be accepted that in business (cos the bills need paying) we use who we can to get our stuff about.   I  don't  make audio, (yet). I do make my own amps (And TT partially) & I'd like to sell my phono corrector but I think I might have to become associated with some one you'd disapprove of.  But I'd sure as hell prefer to sell my home brewed amps and be relatively enthusiastic than go sell stuff I don't care about at all.

By the way i like 6C45 PI and passive CR in between  I have a tx in and TVC out.  Works fine.  i also use VR tubes and current sources for each stage.  i like it.

I also have a shelter 501 and it sounded pure crap last week...  Like your 901, It was full of dust.

sorry slipped off topic there

ciao

WJAM
03-01-2011 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 56
Post ID: 15673
Reply to: 12482
How much radical it gets?
fiogf49gjkf0d
If you feel that Schroder Tonearms are a bit radical from a perspective of the single point suspension then get this:

Tonarm_hanging_2.jpg

Tonarm_hanging_1.jpg




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-15-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,247
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 57
Post ID: 18905
Reply to: 15673
Schroeder Express
fiogf49gjkf0d
For those too impatient or too poor to wait for a bespoke Schroeder arm there is now a +/- ready-made "Schroeder" arm available:

http://dagogo.com/artemis-labs-ta-1-tonearm-review   Art Dudley also just reviewed a "regular" one for Stereophile (qv)...

After a quick perusal, I would like to add to it a threaded, quickly repeatable VTA adjustment; better, faster azimuth adjustment; and viable adjustable damping.  Add these features and optimized mfg processes/purchasing and - IMO - it might profitably sell (like hotcakes) at 2k (the new RB-300).

Paul S
03-09-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 58
Post ID: 19085
Reply to: 12970
Oswald Mills Audio & others
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Romy the Cat wrote:

The only valuable foe myself history lesson I took after Jonathan Weiss visit was Jonathan’s quote. It was where we were sitting in his listening rooms and I was making one of few very fruitless attempts to explain to him why his speaker to sound in the why they are.  Jonathan was listening but I saw that he did not understand what I was saying to him. I asked him and he discerned what I was talking about. He replied: “People out there might be very surprised to learn that I have absolutely no clue about audio and have very little understanding how the things work”. This was actually his quote and it is not taking out of context. Listening what he was saying about audio, listening about his interests in music and sound reproduction it was very self-evident that he is very accidental and very primitive participant of audio. If Mr. Schroeder feels that this level of people are a proper re-presentation of his views then anathema to Mr. Schroeder and he can stick his arms in own ass.

Romy the Cat


Some time ago I had a conversation with Jonathan Weiss from OMA, he promoted the Schroeder and Schick Arms as the two finest Arms in the world....I asked him why....I am wondering, that someone who manufacturers so expensive stuff, has absolutely no, and I mean no, nada, nothing, even below zero, knowledge about items he sells or promotes. Normally nothing shocks me, I survived the Schroeder BS and his DIY idiots and others in his dust, but Mr. Weiss is a class on its own. I gently asked, do you know, why this or that is/was done and what it is good for? He never replied or gave a kind of answer which was filled with a hair of information. Is he a member of a kind of religious group? Or are there really so many wealthy morons out there that he can sell and survive from his crap?
The next one, Mike Lavigne
When you read his promotion site (he is linked with Jonathan Tinn and supports him) you will remember that he owned a Rockport Sirius III Turntable and it was the holy grail. Also for his countless visitors who fell onto their knees too.
Anyway, he sold the table and the owner invited me for adjustment and for listening.
First, the table never worked the way it should. And it never did at Mike's Place, simply impossible. The reason is a design problem, the leads from the Arm are wrapped in a rubber hose, this rubber hose is stiff and creates so much resistance, that only the first three tracks were playable, then it stopped. No way to move the arm closer to the middle, it always moved to the outside based on that.
Maybe the rubber hose was soft when Payor built the table, but after all those years it became stiff (or was always stiff and Payor simply used high VTF cartridges...).
The only way to go on, was to increase the VTF to a very high level (min. 2.5 gr or much more) to force the cartridge to move on. This worked but it will kill the cantilever in very short time.
I was so astonished about that that I asked a few visitors from ML how much they did listen to the Rockport, did Mike ever played a full record or only the first 2 tracks?  ALL confirmed, ML never played a full side, he acted always as a DJ, a track here, a CD there, a Turntable here, another track there, changing the record....
I asked ML what he thinks about that defect sale and he swore he never realized that and at his place the Rockport was working without any problem....the new owner also bought the cartridge from ML he mainly used with the Rockport....it came back freshly from manufacturer rebuilt, with new suspension and cantilever .... :-) 
And honestly, even the first two tracks showed clearly that this Rockport is a thin, uninvolving, ultra boring reproduction unit, the new owner had an old Seiki too and even he (!) said after two tracks he will sell the Rockport asap ..... total waste of time....
So, I ask myself, what kind of guys are these visitors from ML when they aren't able to detect such a technical and sonically fact????Year in, year out they raved that turntable as an analog Altar and Mike never got tired to write that, too....
The more I read Romy's comments about audio people the more I have to agree with him. Even when he uses very drastic comments, from what I was able to check, he is always spot on.
Copulare Racks
that is a Manufacturer in Germany for ultra expensive stands. Steel frames with a piece of wood onto. Sometimes the wood is pure or filled with lead shot. I had a discussion with him because I was looking for a rack and without any reasons he explained me his design ideas...the the amp has to breathe...Electron flow into his super filled Board---rigid stand against amp shaking....and that his coral units (that is a kind of foam which gets hard after a while and can be painted, a platform which is sold for 1.5k$ each and which broke at my home) have a load capacity from 100kg but only when they are above a complete frame. After one broke, I knew why....
it is a foam which gets hard, a few cent per tube and 1.5k$ in sale..anyway, his explanations where so out of ANY knowledge that I asked him multiple times : Do you really believe this nonsense you are telling me for 20 minutes now???A stone somewhere in a desert has more knowledge about vibration control and material mix....
What kind of ultra idiot. I was so mad about that bullshit, I took his items, drove to the junk yard and threw all out.There is a lot of Bullshit in Audio... and Master BS...and then there are such guys....

Systems.jpg




Kind Regards
Stitch
03-10-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 354
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 59
Post ID: 19087
Reply to: 19085
North/South
fiogf49gjkf0d
Considering the minute amount of energy "created" (transformed) in a phono cartridge, perhaps some systems would truly benefit from geophysical orientation. Heck, in the days of expensive picture tube computer monitors there was a different tube for the northern and southern hemisphere. Maybe there IS an audio Mekka?
My system does not seem to have the resolution to tell, but that could have to do with the german steel embedded concrete used for building - or the orientation of the moon during test periods........


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
03-17-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 60
Post ID: 19097
Reply to: 19085
BetterAudioClub
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:

The only valuable foe myself history lesson I took after Jonathan Weiss visit was Jonathan’s quote. ...He replied: “People out there might be very surprised to learn that I have absolutely no clue about audio and have very little understanding how the things work”. 

That is the Forum from Oswald Mills Audio

Seems, he studied GoodSoundClub carefully and thought carefully about the name of his forum .... :-)


Kind Regards
Stitch
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