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  »  New  Vitavox’s S2 Survival Guide...  A typical convention......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     124  1010385  07-16-2004
  »  New  Vitavox S2 with Electromagnets..  Cutter Head/Servo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     91  829252  01-12-2006
  »  New  Vitavox S2 coupling..  Adaptor thickness etc....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     18  60872  12-20-2008
  »  New  Phoenix..  Mute vitavox...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  17675  03-20-2009
  »  New  Fake Vitavox S2 diaphragms on ebay..  The vintage brain virus....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  42152  06-11-2009
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  476288  08-09-2009
  »  New  RCA driver made in China..  About the serious Chinese High-End...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  25539  08-26-2009
  »  New  "O Vitavox, Vitavox! Wherefore art thou Vitavox?&q..  Niche...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     22  153038  06-27-2011
03-27-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 21
Post ID: 4078
Reply to: 4077
Some taking points regarding the new Vitavox S2
 guy sergeant wrote:
Not yet. I'll give him a call & put details of the reply here.
Guy, when you will be taking with Mike then here are some taking points for you if you wish:

1) What type of magnet Mike is planning to use in his new driver?
2) Will be able to fix the secondary resonance on his plastic suspension cones at 1250Hz?
3) Will his new driver will smooth up the gap between the phase plug and the begging of the horns
4) Will the new driver have any provision got more civilized centering of the cone?
5) What methods/routines Mike use to asses the results from his new drivers?
6) When Mike listen his new driver (if he does) then how he driver it, particularly the amplification?
7) Did Mike consider making the magnet wider and the driver shorter, synchronizing the profiles of internal and external horns?
8) Did Mike consider making the driver better or he just plans to replicate what Vitavox did 50 years ago?
9) What would be approximate target prices for the new Vitavox drivers?



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
jessie.dazzle


Paris, France
Posts 456
Joined on 04-23-2006

Post #: 22
Post ID: 4080
Reply to: 4078
New S2 : Some thoughts on rear cover design

Romy wrote :

"Did Mike consider making the driver better or he just plans to replicate what Vitavox did 50 years ago?"

Here is a thought :

While I am over all very pleased with the results I am able to get from the original S2s, Romy once made a comment that has caused me to question the design of the rear cover (he was considering damping the inner surface with fabric): Could there be an advantage in making the inner surface of this cover not so flat, not so smooth, and not so reflective?

It would be interesting to cast a new experimental rear cover having the same volume, but a less reflective shape... not flat, possibly domed, and possibly with an inner texture similar to the crystal lining of a geode (but scaled down). This would be a fairly simple operation for me, and one day I will try it.

In the mean time, it could be something to consider in the design of a new S2.

jd*


How to short-circuit evolution: Enshrine mediocrity.
03-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 23
Post ID: 4081
Reply to: 4080
S2 project
I shall put your questions to him Romy.

He is in a difficult position. Does he make a the driver using the tooling/knowledge/supplier information he has acquired from Vitavox(and change nothing)? This would be actually be a Vitavox S2 (not a repro) or does he try to make a better new version. The people in the far east who are interested in and use these would probably only want something made exactly as per the original one. If I were in his shoes, this is what I'd do. Later one could look at doing a modified 'improved' version. I'm not sure that given the investment involved, it would be wise to make something new at this point.
03-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 24
Post ID: 4082
Reply to: 4081
Georgians say: you can not step in the same river twice.

 guy sergeant wrote:
He is in a difficult position. Does he make a the driver using the tooling/knowledge/supplier information he has acquired from Vitavox(and change nothing)? This would be actually be a Vitavox S2 (not a repro) or does he try to make a better new version. The people in the far east who are interested in and use these would probably only want something made exactly as per the original one. If I were in his shoes, this is what I'd do. Later one could look at doing a modified 'improved' version. I'm not sure that given the investment involved, it would be wise to make something new at this point.

I did not detect that Mike was difficult position. In those few conversations that I had with him he was quite rational and I did not detect any difficulties, as least in the limited scope of the subjects that we had under discussion.

Anyhow, Guy, I very much disagree with your expressed. I do not know if it is Mike’s attitude or your own views but regardless of whose it is I found it faulty. No mater what Mike do the new production of Vitavox S2 will NOT be the same drives as they use to be 50 years back. It is impossible to make it the same, regardless how much someone would like to convince themselves… not to mention: WHY SHOULD IT BE THE SAME? Is the old production of Vitavox S2 some kind of absolute reference that did better Sound? Of course not!!!! Furthermore, I can bring you examples of dozens and dozens companies and products where “reportedly” the same people, with the “reportedly” the same machinery and “reportedly” the same suppliers tried to reinstate former products and the products NEVER were the same. So, I have no doubts that the new production of S2 will sound different then the 50-years production – there is nothing wrong with it.

Still, even shaping the subject as “new production vs. the old production” does not sound intelligent for me. One of the reasons is because the old production drivers all sounded different anyhow…

So, to think - if the new Mike’s production will be repro or not repro is unnecessary. Whatever it will be it will be new drivers. If is will be inspired by the Vitavox S2 blueprint then it is fine but it itself said absolutely nothing about the Sound of those drivers. The originals Vitavox people fifty years ago, very much similar to Mike today are clueless regardless “where sound come from in drivers” and it is perfectly fine that the old guys and Mike do whatever they do just trying to get more “interesting” version of Sound…

Anyhow, it would be sad if Mike buys into the same believe regarding of the S2 driver as you Guy apparently do. Guy, you are and industry participant and your mind works in a certain industry-precompiled format, the format that I religiously reject. Thinking about the new production of the S2 driver you do not think in term of what actions might be take in order to get better Sound out of this driver but rather in term: what kind BS marketing statements the bogus people at far east would like to heard about this drivers in order to find it more attractive to buy. Sure, you would like to pitch to them the concept of the “the original one”? But what does it mean “the original one”? It is a reference to Sound or to the stupid brand cult? I hope Mike would not buy into the Label Drooling and go for the actual sonic results instead of the breeding the stupid marketing crap… the crap that unfortunately is the only thing that makes revenue in audio. Well, whatever, will see…

BTW, when you will be talking to Mike then to the questions for my former post add a question if Mile will be changing (did I say improving?) the shape of the bolt the attaches the phase plug to the center-poll.

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 4083
Reply to: 4082
Enough from me, find out for yourself
Hi Romy,

I was very wary of even discussing this issue here. I should have followed my instincts!

Mike is a rational & considered person. He will do what he does. People can choose to like it or not. It really makes no difference to me. I'm not involved in it. I suspect that whatever he does it would be highly unlikely to be exactly how you would like it anyway!

I don't think I ever suggested that the S2 was any sort of 'absolute reference'. I don't think Mike does either. I do know that they changed the design at various stages. I didn't suggest either that the S2's he does make will sound exactly the same as any particular version of the old one. As you say, even the old ones varied somewhat. As far as I know, in terms of the materials used and how it is put together ie from an engineering standpoint it will be the same as the later ones.
 
If you wish to ask Mike how he will be manufacturing & assessing the drivers he produces then I suggest that you send him an email or give him a call. I'm sure you have his contact details.

I don't think I've anything further to add to this thread

rgs,

Guy
03-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 4084
Reply to: 4083
Better sound out of compressions drivers...
Well, Guy, I do not know what will motivate Mike when (and if) he comes up with his new drivers. Being a manufacture he will become also t industry participant and consequencualy the actual Sound would not be within is area of interest…. Anyhow, I also had a feeling that Mike was planning to put the exact replica of what S2 use to be and I think it will be quite sad. I hope Mike does not drive dally his Austin A70 and does not sleep with 70 years old woman. I think if we for the last 50 years do not learns how to get better sound out of compressions drivers that we worth a little…

Anyhow, I will not actively search the information about the Mike new production as I know that if something will come up then soon or later it will show up as this site, since this site is probably the only places on web (known to me) where peoples actually care and know something about the S2 drivers.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 27
Post ID: 4085
Reply to: 4084
industry participation!
I think it would be quite difficult for anyone to set up any sort of production of drive units and not become an 'industry' participant. It's quite remarkable that you manage to use a turntable, arms, cartridges, CD Player, Tuner, pre-amp and cables all produced by industry participants. I sometimes wonder how you can live with the shame of it.

I think it would also be wise at first to at least make sure one could consistently make a driver that performed to the same level as an S2 before pushing on and trying to refine or improve the design further. But as you say thats just 'industry thinking' tempered by commercial realities and is probably an alien concept to you. 

rgs

Guy
03-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 4086
Reply to: 4085
An alien concept to me…

 guy sergeant wrote:
I think it would be quite difficult for anyone to set up any sort of production of drive units and not become an 'industry' participant. It's quite remarkable that you manage to use a turntable, arms, cartridges, CD Player, Tuner, pre-amp and cables all produced by industry participants. I sometimes wonder how you can live with the shame of it.

Yep, I sometime wonder as well how much better all those crap of mine would be is the companies who made that all were not driver by the blind profit maximization and marginal revenue but by the interests of Sonic results…

 guy sergeant wrote:
I think it would also be wise at first to at least make sure one could consistently make a driver that performed to the same level as an S2 before pushing on and trying to refine or improve the design further.

Frankly speaking I do not see it. It does not sound like Mike has interests (I might be wrong) for “abstractedly better MF driver”. He rather as a person who owns Vitavox name and Vitavox products probably jut look forward to cash in his ownership. To do so he does not need to do anything at the “same level” or to “refine or improve the design further”. All that he need to do is to produce ANYTHIG with a Vitavox label on it and deploy a few marketing cretins who would print a few glorious articles celebrating the damn vintage kitsch. As you called them the “far easterners” with their moronic catholic taste will swallow everything… well, I do not think that my cynicism on the subject is anything new to you but it is what it is. Therefore I think that if Mike would not go initially for better Vitavox S2 drivers then he most likely will not go for any “good driver” at all. BTW, I do not consider the originals Vitavox S2 as a “good” driver. It might be more interesting (accidentals!!!) then some another but it is far form being as good as it could be.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-28-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 29
Post ID: 4094
Reply to: 4086
technological advances
 Romy the Cat wrote:

 guy sergeant wrote:
I think it would be quite difficult for anyone to set up any sort of production of drive units and not become an 'industry' participant. It's quite remarkable that you manage to use a turntable, arms, cartridges, CD Player, Tuner, pre-amp and cables all produced by industry participants. I sometimes wonder how you can live with the shame of it.

Yep, I sometime wonder as well how much better all those crap of mine would be is the companies who made that all were not driver by the blind profit maximization and marginal revenue but by the interests of Sonic results…

You live in a fantasy world Romy. Not one of those items could have evolved into the products you now use without the company responsible being able to develop the technology & materials to allow it to happen. They wouldn't even exist. That sort of development costs money and it has to be earnt somehow. Even your power amplifiers and loudspeakers have evolved from the commercial activities of companies like Lamm, Vitavox, Fane, and probably Avant Gard. Your new tweeters wouldn't have happened unless RAAL had a business that allowed him the resources to develop them. You might regard manufacture and commerce with disdain but if it weren't for them you'd be walking everywhere or perhaps riding in a cart pulled by a horse. Might not be a bad thing!
03-29-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 4095
Reply to: 4094
Let to agree to desagree on it...

 guy sergeant wrote:
You live in a fantasy world Romy. Not one of those items could have evolved into the products you now use without the company responsible being able to develop the technology & materials to allow it to happen. They wouldn't even exist. That sort of development costs money and it has to be earnt somehow. Even your power amplifiers and loudspeakers have evolved from the commercial activities of companies like Lamm, Vitavox, Fane, and probably Avant Gard. Your new tweeters wouldn't have happened unless RAAL had a business that allowed him the resources to develop them. You might regard manufacture and commerce with disdain but if it weren't for them you'd be walking everywhere or perhaps riding in a cart pulled by a horse. Might not be a bad thing!

I live in the world in which I believe. The difference between my world and the world of any typical person with awareness screwed but the industry narrow-mindedness is that I do not recognize a messianic role of products and believe that products (as much as any companies) are in fact irrelevant. It is you who believes (or fell gainful to believe) that if a company would not exist then would not be a Results but I see the things reversely. I know where my “fantasies” lead me and I see into witch crap the product-centric vision got turned into. Buy the last TAS for instance and read the CES report: hundreds companies/products and no single author-son-of-a-bitch is able to say anything about Sound but only to shovel the stupid companies/products like a deck of playing cards….

I know that you would fell differ and it is fine. Since this conversation is too tangential for the subject of the new Vitavox S2 production then let to agree to desagree on it. Even in context of Mike’s Vitavox (with all my wish him to succeed) do not give a damn how successful he will be. A definition of a busses “doing well” means ONLY the state of the business’ accounting books nothing else. If you were a little more evolved on the subjects of relationship between the true qualities of sound and the sales-ability of audio products then … you were a little more comprehensive in this dissuasion. Let me juts leave you with a quote that was given to me a few years ago by a manufacture of a very successfully and very celebrated audio product. He said that in the format in which your audio industry exists today it is imposable for a manufacture (including his own company) to do any interesting sounding products. He said: “the real good sound does not sell to public” and therefore whatever he and others (if they know what they do) put out there is juts the consumer-minded crap to keep the books out of red….


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-29-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 31
Post ID: 4096
Reply to: 4095
Vitavox drivers made in China
If you are correct there should me a large gap in the market for any company that really cares about sound. Returning to the topic of the thread, have you noticed wide discrepancies in the 'sound' of S2 drivers even between drivers manufactured within a short period of each other? I can understand how the driver specs may have changed over time and how this would affect the sound, correct me if I am wrong but weren't S2's primarily made for large cinema/pa applications.
03-29-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
guy sergeant
United Kingdom
Posts 260
Joined on 08-03-2004

Post #: 32
Post ID: 4097
Reply to: 4095
No problem
I can see where you are coming from. However many people (including users of this site) need to use a combination of 'industry built' and sometimes 'home built' items (where there isn't something readily available that will do the job they want it to do) Its fine to imagine items that might better fulfill the purpose of allowing someone to enjoy listening to music at home but the reality is that most people actually need the hardware to do it. Where they get these items is up to them.

You still pay too much attention to the scribblings in TAS, Stereophile and the other magazines. Don't read them.

One of my favourite industry quotes came from someone selling loudspeakers. I asked how a particular model was and he replied, "who cares? speakers aren't for listening to, they are for selling."
03-29-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 4101
Reply to: 4096
... interesting to learn what market Mike'll target with his new Vitavox
 coops wrote:
If you are correct there should me a large gap in the market for any company that really cares about sound. Returning to the topic of the thread, have you noticed wide discrepancies in the 'sound' of S2 drivers even between drivers manufactured within a short period of each other? I can understand how the driver specs may have changed over time and how this would affect the sound, correct me if I am wrong but weren't S2's primarily made for large cinema/pa applications.
Yes, all S2s that I have seen sound slightly different, still preserving the brand sound but still not identical. I did not make correlations between the driver’s manufactures period (serial numbers) and sound. They are 50 years old drivers and they perfectly within their birthrights to sound very unevenly. Do not forgers the S2 was not initially desired to have “firm, default “ Sound as Vitavox made them to have the easy replaceable “on the fields” cones - the thing that always (???) introduces a lot of ambiguoity to the sonic results.

I do not thing that drivers specs were intentionally changed over time and I think it was a normal drift of the production specs. Yes, the S2 was made for sound reinforcement applications. They defiantly way not up to the demands of the home near-field playbacks not to mention that in 50s the perception of “better sound” was at commercials level way more liberal then what we have today. BTW, this is one of the points why it would be interesting to learn what market Mike will target with his new driver. If you will shot for pro installations (that I doubt) then whatever the S2 does “as is” is fine and I wish to Mike a luck to get that Harman International’s phone call....(That I doubt as well). If he thinks to supply the extremely limited demands of the audio horn freaks like me, then it would be very nice if he do for something better then what Vitavox S2 use to be.

Rgs, the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-30-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 4107
Reply to: 4101
"The Vitavox Story"

BTW, it would be nice if Mike, being the today Vitavox inherent, would also tell some history of Vitavox, not that it is important but it would be educational. Pretty much all that I know about them is form the British guy who collects the PA history:

http://www.historyofpa.co.uk/pages/speakers.htm

as far as I underrated Vitavox did not come with own designs but licensed the Klipschorn ideas arming them with own drivers… I have seen some years ago a lit of the Vitavox customers. I do not think that list say anywhere meaningful but it had some (not a lot) big names. Also, the list was quite small I have to note. So, I think if Mike wiling to make some dough in his Vitavox then he need (unfortunately) start form creating and blowing up some “Vitavox steam”, perhaps a glossy Vitavox heritage site what the “history drovers” could address their frustrations… I remember the Morons™ called Vitavox as “British Western Eclectic”… so, why Mike would not make the morons to pay for it?

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-30-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
coops
London, United Kingdom
Posts 115
Joined on 02-15-2007

Post #: 35
Post ID: 4110
Reply to: 4107
New Vitavox driver
Romy I read your post listing some aspects of the Vitavox drivers Mike might take a look at and I know you give acoustic reproduction a lot of thought, have you envisaged the 'perfect ' driver, has the Vitavox enough 'accidentally good' qualities that something really magnificent could be made from it?
03-30-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,623
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 4112
Reply to: 4110
My envision of a "perfect" MF driver?

 coops wrote:
Romy I read your post listing some aspects of the Vitavox drivers Mike might take a look at and I know you give acoustic reproduction a lot of thought, have you envisaged the 'perfect ' driver, has the Vitavox enough 'accidentally good' qualities that something really magnificent could be made from it?

Coops,

I do not know defiantly if Mike visit/read this site. I might presume that he does as this site is one of the very few islands where someone even mentions anything about Vitavox.

About my envision of a “perfect” driver… it is kind of complicated.

I like what S2 does in comparing to some other drivers, particularly what S2 is driven by overloaded plate. Would I consider the S2 as a “perfect driver”? Certainly not! I do clearly recognize some areas (design and sound) that I would like to improve in S2. However I’m not relay equipped to do it and frankly speaking I’m NOT in the business/interest to do it.

You see, with all simplicity of compression drivers to make own “perfect” driver is very complicated. Not because it complicated to do (as actions) but because it extremely complicated predict how those actions will manifest themselves in Sound. You never will be able to say anything… until you are done and no one knows where many attributes of Sound (the Absolute Tone for instance) will be coming from. Look for example what the Congent boys do: year after years they mingle with their MF driver, finding different minor ways to make it to sound better/different. I do not know where they are now in term of the Absolute Tone - they were quite far when I head them two years back…. but they are far not because they are lazy bustards but become no one has any ides where that mischievous Absolute Tone might come from… So, my view is that to pursuit for the 'perfect' driver should take a dedication and preoccupation that I personally am not wiling to invest. I would like someone else discover how to make a “perfect” driver and I juts will use it…

Well, with all my efforts that spend many people fail to realize that I very much against any sights of DIY audio foolishness and am very much not in the business of addressing the audio problems. I see myself more like a user with attitude then a person who had interest to create/invent the things… Therefore, I would prefer someone else do the 'perfect' driver. I do not feel that “when truth is discovered by someone else, it loses something of its attractiveness” I have other means to exercise my own ego….

Anyhow, I hope that a new Vitavox production will be ambitious enough to attacks the legion of contestants for a “perfect” MF driver. If I will have my hands on those new S2 drivers then I will give to them as much consideration as to anything else…

Rgs,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
03-30-2007 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,203
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 37
Post ID: 4113
Reply to: 4112
What does it do right?
I read the horn-related postings on this site with much interest because although I have not heard horns done right, at the same time I have always longed for a way to harness compression horns' absolute dynamic capabilities without the tonal abberations and without also exciting/amplifying their extreme non-linearities.  This has always seemed like a very difficult and convoluted task, especially in light of the ultimate necessity to develop and integrate several horns to make a FR system.

So, given that you use the S2s as the heart of your system, Romy, what caught your interest/attention enough that you developed the S2 driver as opposed to various TADs, JBLs, Klipsch, etc?  I have not heard any S2s but I have heard several iterations of the Klipsch horn, and these did not really spark my interest, perhaps because I do not know what to listen for in a compression driver/candidate for further development.

Best regards,
Paul S 
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Vitavox’s S2 Survival Guide...  A typical convention......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     124  1010385  07-16-2004
  »  New  Vitavox S2 with Electromagnets..  Cutter Head/Servo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     91  829252  01-12-2006
  »  New  Vitavox S2 coupling..  Adaptor thickness etc....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     18  60872  12-20-2008
  »  New  Phoenix..  Mute vitavox...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  17675  03-20-2009
  »  New  Fake Vitavox S2 diaphragms on ebay..  The vintage brain virus....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     6  42152  06-11-2009
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  476288  08-09-2009
  »  New  RCA driver made in China..  About the serious Chinese High-End...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     2  25539  08-26-2009
  »  New  "O Vitavox, Vitavox! Wherefore art thou Vitavox?&q..  Niche...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     22  153038  06-27-2011
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