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   Home » Analog Playback» Idler Drive - Rumbling Into The Future? (28 posts, 2 pages)
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11-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 484
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 21
Post ID: 14917
Reply to: 14042
Idler rumble
fiogf49gjkf0d
Just a short comment on the motor rumble on my particular example of EMT930: using a 40yrs old idler I could clearly hear
the joyful sound of the motor when playing a test empty track (through quite efficient Stax O2 headphones, max volume on their 717 driver).
With the new idler installed I hear nothing. This doesn't of course mean there is nothing, of course on a spectrum analyzer I see some rumble,
but the point is that to optimize a given topology is a hard work, much harder than building a new plinth for your Garrard, Thorens or whatever.
I guess something very similar applies to the belts in belt-driven machines.

BWT, If I rob a bank and decide to buy a SX8000 where to look?

Cheers,
N-set



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
11-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 171
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 22
Post ID: 14922
Reply to: 14917
Why the hell would you need SX8000?
fiogf49gjkf0d
It's probably as good or even worse than Acoustic Solid, Acoustic Signature , VPI , Teres , Galibier and army of heavy TT's you don't have to rob a bank and can buy third hand for fraction of original price. My undersanding is there weren't many heavy TT's on the market in Micro Seiki prime time and they were one of a very few choices. Now there is an army of simillar TT's , but If you tell me that you're going to buy SME 3012 and Ortofon Jubilee too I will understand your "sound shaping " motives.
11-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 23
Post ID: 14926
Reply to: 14922
Brain matters
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Wojtek wrote:
It's probably as good or even worse than Acoustic Solid, Acoustic Signature , VPI , Teres , Galibier and army of heavy TT's you don't have to rob a bank and can buy third hand for fraction of original price. My undersanding is ...

I think, you are posting in the wrong forum.Copy this and write that in a "I-have-no-idea-from-anything-and-I-am-proud-if-that"- SH or similar Forum, and you will find a lot who agree.


Kind Regards
Stitch
11-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 171
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 24
Post ID: 14927
Reply to: 14926
Sure it does, although more money than brain is often the case
fiogf49gjkf0d

and the forum which has already perfectly developed herd behaviour is most appropriate one. Yeah, I worded the post in a wrong way (as usual) If you're in a position which allows you to have intimate experience with most Mass TT's on market via XS800 you can speak with authority otherwise  it's all speculation. It doesn't matter that most of mass TT maufacturers may be a clueless morons (which mostly probably they are) and can't explain their sometimes accidentaly good results -I know ,I asked a few of them

11-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 14928
Reply to: 14927
The interesting moment
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Wojtek wrote:
and the forum which has already perfectly developed herd behaviour is most appropriate one. Yeah, I worded the post in a wrong way (as usual) If you're in a position which allows you to have intimate experience with most Mass TT's on market via XS800 you can speak with authority otherwise  it's all speculation. It doesn't matter that most of mass TT maufacturers may be a clueless morons (which mostly probably they are) and can't explain their sometimes accidentaly good results -I know ,I asked a few of them
Wojtek,

I have no idea what is your beef with one or other TT and frankly speaking I am not sure what you would like to say. The XS800 is fine TT, the cost per performance it is probably unspeakable bargain. I bought my in 2000 for $2.800 shipped (I have RX5000 before) and I feel it was very fine deal. Sure, if the Morons like me would keep the mouths shot then the Micro still will be sold today for nothing. Still, even looking at the today prices I think the large Micros, if to look the costs per performance, are still the unbelievable bargain.

I do not try to advocate Micros or any other TTs. Probably I shall as I have one for sale but money motivate me very little. There is a very interesting moment in all of it that I think you are missing behind your intention to  try to say something semi-mean.

The interesting moment is that nowadays no one but TT because the evaluated performance. What I was buy my Micros I used the reputation and projected result from my familiarity with my smaller Micros. I know a number of people who over the last 10 year bough good TTs and NONE of them did it because they got the personal reference of better performance of these TTs. It is practically impossible nowadays to try any TT properly and to make any sensible concussions, so people use rumors, common sense, examination of design idea, and many other irrelevant assessments in order to foresee how a given TT would sound. It is very sad but it is what it.

If you know Michelle Framer, the idiot-reviewer that took a lot of heat at this site is showing off to the Morons the CD that he record from different TTs. With all idiocy of the approach the motivation that he has is very correct – to give an option for some objectivism in TT evaluations. Unfortunately in his implementation it happen to be as ridicules as making a wolf to guard a flock of sheep….
 
The Moral of the story is that with all foolishnes of paying attention to TT gossip on-line, what other option people have? If you have 20-30K and you are willing to get an expensive TT then would you do? You have no access to the pool of TTs and even if you do then it is unspeakably difficult to properly evaluate the Sound of TT.

Rgs, the Cat
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 171
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 26
Post ID: 14929
Reply to: 14928
No beef
fiogf49gjkf0d
and the "semi -mean" thing I was trying to express it that I don't like a plot here. I can't support running from one cult symbol (EMT) to another (Micro Seiki) without any expressed reason .Going broke, fighting those fucken collectors and hoarders in order to get into a circle of people of "certain level" when the benefits of supposedly superior performance may never be fully capitalised uppon. To hell with it. If Micro Seiki crosses your path get it , if not there are plenty of heavy and heavier tables around. The Seiki's are aproaching 20-30 years of service by now and I wonder if anybody bothers to check bearing tolerances along with motor with it's +_ 4% speed  accuracy.
11-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 484
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 27
Post ID: 14930
Reply to: 14929
Plot?
fiogf49gjkf0d
 Wojtek wrote:
and the "semi -mean" thing I was trying to express it that I don't like a plot here. I can't support running from one cult symbol (EMT) to another (Micro Seiki) without any expressed reason .Going broke, fighting those fucken collectors and hoarders in order to get into a circle of people of "certain level" when the benefits of supposedly superior performance may never be fully capitalised uppon. To hell with it. If Micro Seiki crosses your path get it , if not there are plenty of heavy and heavier tables around. The Seiki's are aproaching 20-30 years of service by now and I wonder if anybody bothers to check bearing tolerances along with motor with it's +_ 4% speed  accuracy.


Wojtek, there is no f**ing plot here, what are you talking about? I wanted to try a particular design,
comming from a particular philosophy not names. Be it EMT, THC, LSD or whatever. Read the whole therad.




Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
01-07-2013 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 28
Post ID: 18861
Reply to: 14042
Never too old to learn from a real Master
fiogf49gjkf0d
Luv' it.

************************
01-07-13: Jweiss
Don't know who Jeremy is, but it's pretty obvious he is shilling for Artisan.

I often get emails when Artisan releases a new "product" to the effect that- "do you know this guy is ripping off your designs?" I consider imitation a sincere form of flattery, so I really don't care, but here are some things you should know:

Slate is not sterile or neutral, it is an ideal material for making a plinth. Take a look over at Lenco Heaven- half the DIY projects there are slate. Perhaps all the Lenco guys prefer "sterile" sound?

Two of the best tonearm makers in the world, Frank Schroeder and Thomas Schick both use 301's personally, and both use OMA slate plinths for their 301's. 

Furthermore, neither Schroeder nor Schick, nor myself, use a "fully restored" 301. The idea that you have to do a frame off Pebble Beach level restoration to get the most out of a 301 is nonsense. Even Loricraft did not do that, when they were still selling refurbished decks. Many companies are doing it now because sourcing cosmetically acceptable 301's has become so difficult and expensive. So its easier to find beater decks and repaint them, and then you have to do a complete restoration.

Finally, why do you think all of the wooden plinths are so massive looking? They have to be that large to get the necessary mass to run an idler like the 301 quietly. Slate is far more massive, a heavier, better damped material than any wood product, but companies like Artisan cannot copy what OMA does, because they don't have a $300,000 five axis Flow Waterjet and they don't have the slate, nor the ability to put an appropriate finish on a stone plinth. Which is why their 301 systems may look like OMA's, but it ends there. Remember, an OMA slate plinth, double layer, weighs over 100 lbs.

Jonathan Weiss
OMA

************************
Found in a discussion in the world wide bubble
The world is good.


Kind Regards
Stitch
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