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10-27-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
JJ Triode
Posts 75
Joined on 09-12-2007

Post #: 21
Post ID: 12068
Reply to: 12064
Romy goes out to dinner with a moron
fiogf49gjkf0d
I know it has very little to do with the Magico Ultimate, but Romy had one line in the AV thread that deserves to be preserved here, in case the moderators of that forum "vandalize" it:

quote: "If we have a dinner and you eat a bowel movement as your main course then you would not be the person [with] whom I would talk about gourmet cooking."

I laughed until I cried, no kidding.  Still, there really are people in audio with whom it is that hard to have a conversation (about audio.)  Not the ones who simply know nothing, they are not a problem, but certain "others."
10-28-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 12075
Reply to: 12068
Tom Martin’s observations about Magico Ulitmate
fiogf49gjkf0d

I do not know who Tom Martin. He said that he runs The Absolute Sound and he apparently has power to delete my posts from TAS forum. I have finished with TAS forum – they fully indicated the level of the subject handling. Tom Martin however posted a link to his blog post about Magico Ulitmate.

http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-release-listening-horns-magico-ultimate-ii

This apparently is the MKII, the “improved” version. I have read the Tom’s feedback.  As an observation of a relatively inexperienced person it is a reasonable document. I would not be critical about Tom Martin’s observations – it is a privet post and everyone in titled to demonstrate own views. Still, even in Martin’s uninformed listening experiences it might be clearly recognized the design problems of the Magico Ulitmate. Sure, in the comment section the toilet paper of audio reviewing – the estimable Jonathan Valin – was not be able to stay away from trumping up the stupid excitement.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-31-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 23
Post ID: 12099
Reply to: 12075
Magico Ultimate II in Hong Kong
fiogf49gjkf0d

I do not know what fantasies Tom Martin and Robert Harley had but it looks to me  that Magico Ultimate II is very much the same as Magico Ultimate I, the prefix II mean a new round of marketing BS… Here are the pictures of the Ultimate’s installation in Hong Kong demo room. The guy you heard them is rather ignorant and not experienced to hear the sonic problems with Ultimate design but the pictures are there….

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=18843

Rgs, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-31-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 24
Post ID: 12100
Reply to: 12099
Magico Ultimate and Lamm ML3
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:

I do not know what fantasies Tom Martin and Robert Harley had but it looks to me  that Magico Ultimate II is very much the same as Magico Ultimate I, the prefix II mean a new round of marketing BS… Here are the pictures of the Ultimate’s installation in Hong Kong demo room. The guy you heard them is rather ignorant and not experienced to hear the sonic problems with Ultimate design but the pictures are there….

http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php?t=18843

Rgs, Romy the Cat

What is the most interesting at the Hong Kong installation linked in my post above that they drive Magico Ultimate with looks like bi-amping of Lamm ML3 and ML1. The ML1 is 80W PP amp that is OK for this foolish Magico bass channel. The ML3 in country is 40W amp that was build to handle greed current on GM70 and to drive the ported Wilsons and alike. Degrading all the rest Magico Ultimate problem I would say that those Hong Kong folks are a bit wrong to employ ML3 over the Magico MF horns.  Sure they use different logic: if you have 400K speakers then you need to use 160K amp… The moronic logic…

Magico_Lamm.jpg

BTW, it kind of opines an interning question: how good the Lamm ML3 for the first half watt? I think it shall be fine but I am sure it would be much better it is meant to work in this mode. If ML3 would just a few watts then it would not need to come up with such a powerful 4-tube current provider for second stage. In fact, for first view watts the ML3 shall be 2-stages only.

Again, the Hong Kong folks sell the boxes to people who mostly have absolutely no idea what they do. If the ML3 drives only MF channels of Magico then we are in DSET world and 80% of ML3 is not necessary and ML3 might be converted into $5.000 amplifier on GM70. OK, in the Lamm’s scale it would be $55.000…

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-02-2009 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 25
Post ID: 12120
Reply to: 12075
What kind Morons care today the PhD and M.S in Acoustics titles?
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Romy the Cat wrote:

I do not know who Tom Martin. He said that he runs The Absolute Sound and he apparently has power to delete my posts from TAS forum. I have finished with TAS forum – they fully indicated the level of the subject handling. Tom Martin however posted a link to his blog post about Magico Ulitmate.

http://www.avguide.com/blog/first-release-listening-horns-magico-ultimate-ii

This apparently is the MKII, the “improved” version. I have read the Tom’s feedback.  As an observation of a relatively inexperienced person it is a reasonable document. I would not be critical about Tom Martin’s observations – it is a privet post and everyone in titled to demonstrate own views. Still, even in Martin’s uninformed listening experiences it might be clearly recognized the design problems of the Magico Ulitmate. Sure, in the comment section the toilet paper of audio reviewing – the estimable Jonathan Valin – was not be able to stay away from trumping up the stupid excitement.


From the same stupid TAS source about the Magico Ultimate. The fools from Magico Hitler-Jugend looks like came down and the “academia” took it turn. Here is magnificent “position” of a guy of Dr. Gedlee-evel who can’t survive own empty education.

“As a physicist (PhD) with an M.S in  Acoustics, and a big horns fan, I like to say that I found very little merits in Romy criticism of the Ultimate horns. After spending some time on his website, trying to weed out relevant information to support his dismay (That was hard), I only came up with one coherent point which relates to time alignment. I would like to point out that the benefits  of "time alignment" in multi-way transducers line-up is controversial at best. This is due to the very simple fact that "proper" physical alignment is truly only possible in a concentric devise. One that none of these big horns relates to. Beside, since it looks like the Ultimate is running through a DSP XO, I am sure that a delay can easily be introduced to create a much more accurate time alignment then merely a physical one.  Romy can jump all he likes but the "questionable validity" of vertical physical time alignment has been proven by people with much more appropriate credential then a hobbyist/entertainer.”

I think my commentaries are not necessary.  It is good that the guy is not a doctor or he would insist that there are teeth behind asshole sphincter.

The Cat

PS: And since TAS have deleted my reply here is what was the replied:

"If the time-alignment is the only thing that you can recognize negative in The Ultimate then keep teach students and do not touch anything with your hands. If the time alignment is controversial for you and you feel that it might be addressed by DSP XO then it indicates nothing else then what kind individuals care PhD and M.S in Acoustics titles nowadays. I am sorry but you are absolutely disqualified to deal with sound.  The shitty state of sound reproduction of today is a perfect monument of your victorious but empty and pretentious pomposity. Have a good day, Dr. Gedlee …"




"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-11-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 20435
Reply to: 12100
The Moron makes waves again.
fiogf49gjkf0d

Well, this is all necessary to make positive waves in audio industry: a stupid design, a barbaric sound and to know which industry ass to kiss.

http://www.soundstageglobal.com/index.php/shows-events/ces-2014-las-vegas-usa/152-ces-2014-features/458-ces-2014-twbas-style-part-one


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-11-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 289
Joined on 05-22-2009

Post #: 27
Post ID: 20436
Reply to: 20435
Tom Martin
fiogf49gjkf0d
Tom Martin is a successful businessman who enjoyed the old TAS apparently. When HP fell on hard times he bought the mag and then promptly put HP on the shelf, brought in Harley and created a Stereophile alternate mag. Maybe someone knows why he did that since HP was a known quantity to say the least. I don't know if that was the plan all along or HP irritated him and for spite he kicked him upstairs (Emeritus). Never heard Martin was other than a rich audiophile. As for Soundstage I rather applaud the approach. If he listened to it he would have to lie in all probability. In this way he can praise it with a clear conscience. I certainly question his art appreciation though. I think it looks horrid.
01-12-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 20437
Reply to: 20436
Laudable.
fiogf49gjkf0d
In this case I do not knock the author of the articulate. He is a reviewer, the Soundsate.com level of reviewer, the worst kind and there is not a lot of expectation from him.  It is not to mention that where did you an industry reviewer was able to say anything lucid about horn-loaded acoustic system.
The point I was making was to mock the Magico idiot with his “Ultimate” bogusness.

http://my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2013a/IMG_7856ss.jpg

http://my-hiend.com/leoyeh2/2013a/IMG_7857ss.jpg

Right now the idiot collimated that pure speaker with a LF channel and 4000W amp, offers a “user choose” of digital or analog filters. I think he butters up the perspective fools with $600K and this is why he needs the industry bottom lickers to massage the mind using superrelative adjectives
This is as laudable as the unfortunately true.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-12-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 289
Joined on 05-22-2009

Post #: 29
Post ID: 20438
Reply to: 20437
Ungainly
fiogf49gjkf0d
I am certainly far from an expert on horns but one look at the speaker certainly left an impression of ill proportions. Usually that means DSP to solve it. Am I wrong in thinking that could be guessed just from the picture? This stuff has so many non sequiturs that it becomes obvious these are just businessmen separating rich fools from their money. On those terms it will probably be a success. I thought DSP was needed mainly with a very small (lifestyle) speaker.

Seven or eight years ago when I was still getting TAS, they ran a short article about a rich audiophile in the SF Bay area who had bought a warehouse and fixed it up and installed a prototype full horn system - I mean with a bass horn that was a horn, not a woofer. From the picture they ran it was simply enormous. Does anyone remember that article? The article was the typical puff piece so it was not easy to figure out the technical issues from it. But it was impressive looking. Obviously I got no idea how it really sounded. Never heard anything more about it.
01-12-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 20439
Reply to: 20438
Predictable.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 steverino wrote:
Seven or eight years ago when I was still getting TAS, they ran a short article about a rich audiophile in the SF Bay area who had bought a warehouse and fixed it up and installed a prototype full horn system - I mean with a bass horn that was a horn, not a woofer. From the picture they ran it was simply enormous. Does anyone remember that article? The article was the typical puff piece so it was not easy to figure out the technical issues from it. But it was impressive looking. Obviously I got no idea how it really sounded. Never heard anything more about it.

I do not know what it was.  I do not get TAS since 2095 and I just buy it one a year at newsstand as a toilet reading. I do not know who that “rich audiophile in the SF Bay area” and what he was trying to accomplish but I absolutely assure you that he was “lightweight” and that sound that he was building was garbage. How can I be so arrogantly confident? Because TAS was involved. They would not write about any sonic endeavor without industry sale whores be involved into the project and if they did then the result is highly predictable. I also very much assure that all listening rooms that TAS ever mentioned all sound the same.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
01-12-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 289
Joined on 05-22-2009

Post #: 31
Post ID: 20440
Reply to: 20439
Perhaps
fiogf49gjkf0d
You could be right but my memory was that the article was written in disclaimer fashion so to speak. In other words, someone had passed along the word on  this guy's set-up which was completely custom BTW. I don't think a listening area had even been set up, the warehouse looked fairly bare except for the prototype speakers at one end. The TAS writer (I can't remember which ) just discussed it as something highly unusual given the amazing size of the speakers. I don't believe they ran any photos of the individuals or even mentioned the guy's name although I could be misremembering. So I rather doubt that this was a TAS venture but anything is possible. In any event, TAS never mentioned it again and I never heard any company trying to market it (which would be highly difficult since it wouldn't fit in any remotely normal house.) Maybe someone else remembers.
07-07-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 32
Post ID: 21081
Reply to: 2103
The speaker-reviewer synergy.
fiogf49gjkf0d
 
I think 15 years back I was speaking with a famous industry person who told that the responsibility of an individual who run an audio publication is to match the stupidity of audio product to the stupidity of reviewer. he said that if manufacture made a product and even the make him know that it is shit then he find among the pool of available audio writers the most moronic who will be "impressed" but the new made product. Well in case of matching the Magico’s "ultimate: The Absolute Sound did a phenomenal matching that retarget loudspeaker with estimable fool and plenipotential idiot Jonathan Valin. Bravo TAS!!!

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magico-ultimate-iii-horn-loaded-loudspeaker

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-08-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 33
Post ID: 21083
Reply to: 21081
OK, I read above.
fiogf49gjkf0d
  Jonathan Valin wrote:

Third, in Munich, because of the severely limited amount of time available for setup (and the severely limited space to set up in), Wolf DSP’d the U3s for phase but did not DSP them for time alignment....

In Cali, the U3s were painstakingly DSP’d via their digital crossover for linear amplitude, phase, and time (impulse) response.

That is so great. The  "big time designer" Alon the Wolf did not painstakingly performed the time alignment, even though the non-curved time alignment in this configuration is a permanent constant and shall take 3 seconds to preset. It is possible that Alon the Wolf was idiot asking me what time alignment is 9 years back and he is still idiot if he still do not doing. If he does not.  

It is possible  that I shall take it back a bit as the idiocy of Alon the Wolf in this situation well shadowed by the idiocy of Jonathan Valin.  Jonathan Valin is too unsophisticated and ignorant listener to recognize any more or less fine points of acoustic system sound. In Munich he did not catch that speakers were not time aligned and ironically I think that they were not  mis-aligned. Even Alon the Wolf is a fool but his technicians would not allow him to do such a stupidity and they spent 2 full days to set up the speakers.  Remind you that time align this configuration in DSP level take 5 seconds.

So, here is how it went most likely. In Munich the Magico most likely did sound like crap but the reason was not mythical time arrival  mis-alignment but zillion other reasons that understandably might take place.  When  Valin come to Magico room and Alon the Wolf kissing the ass of "big time reviewer" (as all manufacturers usually do) the Wolf "explained"  to Valin (and via him to wide public) the failure of the Munich show by "we forgot to spend 3 second to do time alignment". The stupid Valin was sitting and flipping his eyes not able to retort "I do not hear time alignment in Munich".  So, not the reason for Munich was appointed and I think that was the only why Wolf even brought the damn ass Valin in Magico listening room. The Wolfy is a archetypal street shell game fraud-artist and anything he does is made to deceive and then polish reality as it was a demonstration of virtues. In this case the tricky Jew was playing the brainless audio reviewer  who just like a parrot would trumpet any BS that was dumped to his deprived from smell recognition beak.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
07-09-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,071
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 34
Post ID: 21086
Reply to: 21083
The Course of Evolution
fiogf49gjkf0d
Anyone might "invent" and/or sell anything any possible way, of course; caveat emptor, as ever. But I do wonder and would like to hear a plausible story about how the Magicos I have seen and heard "turned into" this big horn speaker.


Paul S
07-11-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 35
Post ID: 21096
Reply to: 21083
Magico horn bass modules
fiogf49gjkf0d
I was pitching before that to make a loudspeaker with integrated LF module you have no ethical right to charge more then let say $20K retail.  If you charge more then you have no mechanism to deliver anything for the money people pay. However, if you charge over half million dollars as Magico suggests their horn worth then you are a certifiable idiot if you use the integrated bass module. You just not idiot but you rather is absolutely uninformed about the nature of audio practice  - wish kind of make you an idiot if you claim to be an audio maker...

Anyhow to demonstrate how much off those idiots are let me to leave aside the topological impotency of the Magico bass and let look at the implementation.  I presume that Alon the Moron read my articles back in 2006 about Aurasound 18 incher as it was the time when he made his first Ultimate prototype.  Like any idiots he heard noise but have no idea what it meant. Aura made Aurasound 1808 driver in 80s - phenomenal driver of used properly-  was the only 18-inchers underhand voice coil ever produced. Later on in the end of the 90s they change it to NRT18-8, less sensitive version,  slightly higher resonance and the paper saturated with epoxy to accommodate high power amplifiers for pro-audio installations.  Even the NRT18-8 had the same motor and same suspension but it did not sound so good. The fool from Magico went for the their generation of Aura and they use in $500K speaker the Aurasound NS18 - a remarkable of shit:

https://www.solen.ca/pdf/aura/NS18-992-4A.pdf

The efficiency dropped for 10db!!! They use hard inertial rubber for suspension, an Aluminum cone and the driver has 10% distortion juts from fraction of power in bass. That is absolutely retarded and could be only topped by  celebrated by the stupid industry Sanfaire subwoofers that deliver estimable 90% distortions.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-31-2014 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,341
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 21188
Reply to: 21096
Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike about Magico Ultimate
fiogf49gjkf0d
http://audiofederation.com/blog/2014/08/29/high-end-audio-munich-2014


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Page 2 of 2 (36 items) Select Pages:  « 1 2
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  40232  07-11-2006
  »  New  Magico Mini or Jonathan Valin maxi? ..  Leather-like materials or plastics surrounds?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     21  131531  07-16-2006
  »  New  The most promising “best” commercial speaker..  Viva Audio...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     190  1065500  12-06-2006
  »  New  Time Alignment : Live Performances vs Audio..  Stating the obvious...  Playback Listening  Forum     9  53274  03-07-2007
  »  New  The most interesting horn ideas to me so far..  Looking for best horn values...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  29832  04-30-2007
  »  New  Denouncing of idea of Bass Horns...  Denouncing of idea of Bass Horns....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  16946  04-15-2008
  »  New  Macondo vs. the “industry sponsored speakers”..  Correction : "Man in the street"...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  30995  05-11-2008
  »  New  Magico Model 6 loudspeakers...  The Federated Mike becomes a Sound expert....  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  30389  06-20-2009
  »  New  Midbass Horns and Real Estate...  Just a youtube video......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     247  1268728  07-26-2009
  »  New  The 5-ways from Germany...  Simon Rattle and Bruckner...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     15  92231  12-06-2009
  »  New  Magico new 5 ways idea. Review and Critiques..  Magico new 5 ways idea. Review and Critiques...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  12696  08-07-2011
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