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02-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
berlinta
Posts 4
Joined on 02-10-2010

Post #: 21
Post ID: 12901
Reply to: 12900
VTA VTF balance
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Romy,
I should have made myself more clear about the paragraph you quoted. Typical situations:
a. The arm is installed on a deck that accomodates more than one arm. The listener, if lucky, has two(for all intents and purposes) identical cartridges and gets to listen to the front end that he's used to vs. the frontend with my arm as a substitute in his own system.  A month later, I get the call...
b. An audiophile comes over to his friend who happens to have aquired one of my arms. He likes what he's hearing and a week later, he brings his own turntable for a comparison. They listen for an afternoon. Not nearly as valid a basis, but it happens all the time.
C. People attend shows and they sit down, listen for several tracks or even whole records and comment favorably about the sound, - of the system, not the arm. Whouldn't you say that it follows the principle of deductive reasoning that a stellar sounding system can't feature a mediocre component?
Yes, the arm may well be the weak link in that chain, that's why I have done(and still offer) side by side comparisons at shows.

I never said that VTF/VTA balance is critical on warped records. I said that if you're record is perfectly flat, you're unlikely to hear the difference between a neutral and a stable balance arm.
On the other hand, if one follows Pierre Lurne's logic of the ideal inertia ellipsoid being a circle, your point is overthrown. In reality, all cantilever/suspension assemblies behave in a non-linear fashion, neither is the compliance, nor the inertia constant in all directions. So the notion of producing a neutral balance arm, while getting closer to providing the cartridge with the same inertia to work "against"(making it behave more linearly) will always remain a compromise, just like vinyl playback alltogether(or life, for that matter).

Very few people understand the working principle behind the bearing in my arms. If you read the "DIY-Schroeder tonenarm" thread under:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/13372-diy-schroeder-tonearm.html

you'll find every possible misconception and my attempts to correct them, so that diyers can benefit from the principle without have to pay an insane price.

I'm not shure I got your point about "VTA/VTF lock", what do you mean by: the arm will try to "maintain VTA", despite no change in VTA(?)

And believe me, I know EXACTLY that the magnets need to be ground precisely, or else the entire exercise would be mute. This bearing option(hate the word upgrade) costs the customer 200$ extra, not exactly "substantial extra cash"(sorry Paul), when considering that it takes about 4 hours to do it. The magnets on the SQ bearings are also larger and have a higher energy "content"(N52). A big advantage of this arrangemant is that you can alter VTA to accomodate heavier pressings or records that were cut at different rake angles without having to readjust VTF. And the stability around the longitudinal axis is increased.

No, the proper curvature does not depend upon the cart compliance, but on the diameter and strength of the magnets, the dimensions of the soft iron yoke around it, the attachment point of the thread(vs. the COG of the armwand/counterweight assembly) and, last but not least, the mass distribution inside the cart. I usually go for a minimal remaining restoring force(0,05gr VTF change for 5mm VTA change).

The link to the DPS arm picture(oooold...) posted earlier is somewhat misleading, since it shows the arm with the magnets resting firmly on top of each other. That's so I could take that picture without having to mount a dummy cart.

Lastly, I can assure you that, for a long time, the choice of thread material ensures stable operation under all conditions. BTW, many  years ago, I received a customer(from a city in Asia infamous for its high humidity)complaint that the arm was responsible for changes in sound. Every time he would come home, he'd turn on the AC and shure enough, it took an hour before the system sounded the way he liked it. I inquired to find out that the AC dropped the temp from typically 28°C or higher and a humidity approaching 95% to 21°C and 55% humidity. I told him that that was likely affecting his cartridge(suspension) more than anything, and shure enough, I took the arm back and the problem reappeared with another, well reputed tonearm. Only that he didn't like the sound as much once the AC had done it's job. So he did swap again and bought another cartridge that featured a damper/alignment chosen to work better(and is less succeptible to change) in his climate range.

Many high quality vinyl replay audio components are like cars. You need to feel comfortable with them. Any arm is only as good as the setup(person) allows, it's up to the individual to decide with which arm he achieves the best(constantly satisfying) results. But you can't blame a Formula 1 race car for needing a good mechanic to perform (close to)100%. There are very few people out there who really know how to get the best out of a race car, - or a turntable...

Cheers,

Frank
02-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 22
Post ID: 12902
Reply to: 12901
The implication of “exclusivity” from the shithole?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Frank, I do not see a reason to argue arms. I am not on a market for arm and I am comfortable with the sound I am getting from two of my six arms. I have no motivations or needs to look for other arms. Thankfully I am not in business to sell audio to other and I have no need to convince anybody in anything. I guess it would be a job of the people who use your arm to follow your thought the at DiyAudio.com forum. As I understand you did not read my site and do not know my attitude towards the retards that clustered in there. It is ok.

Are you implying some kind of exclusivity in analog playing? Well, as long as it make you happy then it is fine. This feeling of being special is a good thing, I am glad you enjoy it. What however is peculiar is your association with Jonathan Weiss of Oswald Mills. A person with a microscopic fraction of respect to audio-subjects and elemental human dignity would run that dirt with track. You are in a contrary have a very tight bind with him. Oh, I forget, you are an industry manufacture who sell base upon a cult that has a name “Very few people know…”.  Ironically in this muddy water of cheap exclusiveness (and horrible ignorance) the poison mushrooms of Jonathan Weiss’ consciousness are growing.  I know that you are an industry manufacturer and you are accustomed to kiss other’s dirty asses for publicity and for traffic of your products – that is the rules of engagement. However, there are some limits where your personally draw a line. An association with Oswald Mills is a definition of absolute filth. Be addressed that right after your visit of the Mills, visiting of all your “friends” and associates in there and kissing all of them in asses your friends in private conversations dumped extremely negative and off-putting criticism about each other. This is how all those idiots operate and you are making yourself one of them. Unfortunately I know too precise the true value of that pathetic “brotherhood” and I have no interest to any stink that derive from there. So, your implication of “exclusivity” is not without irony….

Rsg, Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
berlinta
Posts 4
Joined on 02-10-2010

Post #: 23
Post ID: 12906
Reply to: 12902
Exclusivity?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Romy,
I thought we were just discussing technical issues around tonearm bearings with a focus on the peciuliarities of the bearing used in my arms. I have no intention to sell you anything. As stated in my first posting, I do not want to convert anyone, for me audio isn't a religion or a cult, it's a hobby first, then a profession, serving my passion for music.

The participation in said DIY forum is not aimed at existing customers(quite the opposite). Maybe you'll find the time to read just my posts there, as they revolve around technical issues in tonearm designs(not just my own).

I did read, if admittedly not regularly, many of the threads on this site over the years, but was regularly appalled by the way any disliking, be it for an audio component, a manufacturing company, a manufacturer or a fellow audio enthusiast, was expressed. I saw the same foul expressions, assumptions rather than facts and too often, opinion instead of knowledge over and over again. Your last post is a case in point:

You don't know who I consider a friend. I apply this term sparingly.
While I'm accustomed to people in this industry "kissing other's dirty asses for publicity, traffic...", I never signed those rules of engagement.
If you consider me filthy for the association with Oswalds Mill, without knowing the history or the character of that relationship, so be it. Many years ago, Mr. Weiss attacked me and my product publicly with equal rudeness(he does have a bad temper from time to time, but you ain't no slouch either :-). Instead of firing back even harder, I approached him to see if I could get him to listen to my position and he did. He has treated me with respect ever since and unless he changes this attitude, I see no reason to follow your position. Especially since you seem to project your hostility onto my person, without ever having met me.

Lastly, I'm no more implying exclusivity in analog playback as you seem to imply exclusivity in all things audio. Didn't you call many an audiophile "clueless idiot", many a reviewer "filthy, self absorbed and corrupt" and most dealers "crooks" at some point in time?  I was merely trying to say that there are fewer people today than, say, 20 years ago, who have an indepth knowledge of analog audio(both vinyl and reel to reel).

None of the above has anything to do with the original post that started the thread. If there is any interest in my technical input in this thread or elsewhere, I'll be more than happy to add my two cents. Just let me know...

Until then,

all the best,

Frank

02-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 24
Post ID: 12907
Reply to: 12906
My last post as a "case in point".
fiogf49gjkf0d

Frank, I do not generally participate in the “technical discussions” about the tonearm design I would live it to DIYAudio0type of people. I see no point and no particular interest on the subject. There are multiple reasons why. Not the last of those multiple reasons is that fact that all of those who love to talk big theories about tonearms (turntables, cartridges, tubes, amplifiers, cables etc, etc, etc, etc) are absolutely clueless about sonic results they get out of their creations. There is an army of people who make let say tonearms or turntables today but for some “mysteries” reasons they all do not perform well. You might even agree with me.  I know, I know, you would say that all of your “competitors” are ignorant but you are the special one. Well, I hope you understand that I can bring to a table a number of people who would say the same about themselves, who have no fewer patents then you have, have no less education in the field then you and are able elegantly express verbiage about tonearm design. What does it mean? It means absolutely nothing. All technical discussions are worth no more than any other discussions and serve nothing else that the interests of the people who would like to talk.

You are wrong about me expressing assumptions and opinion rather than facts. They are fact of my experience and if I do not feel need to show off my facts to you then it is only because I have no need to prove anything to you or to whomever out there. From the same perspective any single position you have expressed might be viewed as assumptions and opinion, so what?  So, let separate duties – you will be making tonearms and think how internet discussions help to make tonearms to sound better. I will be using tonearms and think about nature Sound, preferably without bind to tonearms lingo.

Saying, all of it I hope that you noted that I did not pass any specific observations about your tonearms – I have no interest or need. I did hear number of negative feedback from various people about your tonearms. I have to admit that I discard them as much as I discard the stupidly-exuberant comments about your tonearms. In fact drooling conclusion about your products is very much NOT my interest and the main reason is your boyfriend from Oswalds Mill. I do not care how your relationship got developed and who take advantage of who. It is my firm conviction that if you are associated with Oswald’s Mill then you are a bottom of the barrel and  it is my very fundamental judgment.  I do not have hostility toward you I just very sincerity wish any single cretin who deal with Jonathan Weiss to right tomorrow and preferably from a very painful illness. I hope this make my position very clear and would avoid any confusion in your interest to “technical discuss” tonearms.

I hope you to lose your virginity about the subject you are too confident.

Until then,
Romy the Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 25
Post ID: 12908
Reply to: 12907
Vulgarity and Romy
fiogf49gjkf0d

Writing anything on this site is akin to playing Russian roulette, which is a real shame as I find Romy's website generally very informative and a fascinating read, although my limited exposure to horn loudspeakers suggests that they might not be for me. This overall good experience is however spoilt by the infantile and sometimes downright abusive attitude that Romy adopts whenever dealers, distributors or manufacturers or anyone involved in making a living out of servicing our interest/hobby/passion/obsession (call it what you will), are mentioned.

True the extent to which our judgement may be clouded when we talk about the stuff that we sell ourselves is always going to be an issue, and that is where an online community where end-users can talk about their gear is invaluable, as long as one approaches everything with the appropriate dose of scepticism.

That should not give anyone the right to pour scorn on an individual just because he is a manufacturer, or heaven forbids, associated with Oswalds Mill Audio. Like Romy, I don't care much about their products, although I do own a slate plinth for a Garrard 401. What I do care about is that Romy's loathing and repulsion for Mr. Weiss, whether justified or not, makes him paint everyone with the same brush. You descend too easily to vulgarity Romy, and too often.

The fact that this is your site is both a curse and a blessing. I find more intelligence and worthwhile knowledge here (see the discussion on The Pacific Microsonic Dac) than pretty much anywhere else, but I despair when rationality takes a backseat when you deliberately set up someone for an unjustified torrent of abuse when the guy in question takes 'pen to paper' AND addresses a whole list of issues that your thread raised.

I owe no loyalty to Frank Shroder, or his tonearms, which if my opinion was asked, I would call overpriced and far too complex in setting up to be of much good to me. Like Romy, I own a couple of SME 3012, which I love, but not to the extent of being blind to the other tonearms, and there are a few, which are superior.

1. I never said that VTF/VTA balance is critical on warped records. I said that if you're record is perfectly flat, you're unlikely to hear the difference between a neutral and a stable balance arm.
On the other hand, if one follows Pierre Lurne's logic of the ideal inertia ellipsoid being a circle, your point is overthrown.

2. The magnets on the SQ bearings are also larger and have a higher energy "content"(N52). A big advantage of this arrangemant is that you can alter VTA to accomodate heavier pressings or records that were cut at different rake angles without having to readjust VTF. And the stability around the longitudinal axis is increased.

3. No, the proper curvature does not depend upon the cart compliance, but on the diameter and strength of the magnets, the dimensions of the soft iron yoke around it, the attachment point of the thread(vs. the COG of the armwand/counterweight assembly) and, last but not least, the mass distribution inside the cart. I usually go for a minimal remaining restoring force(0,05gr VTF change for 5mm VTA change).

4. Many high quality vinyl replay audio components are like cars. You need to feel comfortable with them. Any arm is only as good as the setup(person) allows, it's up to the individual to decide with which arm he achieves the best(constantly satisfying) results.

Romy, the salient points, in my opinion, that were made in Frank's last post, are the ones I have extracted above. As the person who started this character assassination of an individual that you don't know personally, and whose tonearm I believe you have never tried in your own system, I believe you did yourself AND your valuable website a disservice in attacking someone who answered the issues raised succinctly and honestly. I hope Frank forgives your petulant remarks and maybe contributes further to this discussion. It would be nice, if with the apparently limitless means at your disposal, you made a point to try a few other promising tonearms and see how they compare with your very venerable and very delightful SME 3012Rs. You might, or might not, be pleasantly surprised.

Regards

Rakesh
02-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 26
Post ID: 12909
Reply to: 12908
Celebrating myself….
fiogf49gjkf0d
Rakesh, I perfectly agree what you say and I am glad that others understand that it is not about tonearms but people. Frank with his tonearms might be untended victim of his chooses but it is what it is. I very much know and understand what I say and how I behave – some people se in it some kind of anger but they are wrong – I am comfortably calm and do not like what I do not like. The Oswalds Mill is an ultimate human waste, many people that I respect warned me about it before I was introduced to it, not it is my conviction. So, the difference between me and others is just that I do not mind to express what I feel. It has nothing to do with vulgarity. It is vulgarity only if I am wrong but how about if I am right? To me the best illustration of my attitude is the brilliant Kevin Spacey’s presentation of the story of Keyser Soze in the “The Usual Suspects”: “He lets the last Hungarian go. He waits until his wife and kids are in the ground and then he goes after the rest of the mob. He kills their kids, he kills their wives, he kills their parents and their parents' friends. He burns down the houses they live in and the stores they work in, he kills people that owe them money.“ To me this is a perfect artistic illustration of confidence in own conviction. I very intentionally converted the thyme of the Schroder Tonearms into the referendum on Jonathan Weiss. Frank did not just “owe them money” according to the Keyser Soze but he actively endorses the dirt by his business association. This is deal breaker for me and I, being myself, do not need to know anything else about the Schroder’s tonearms.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 27
Post ID: 12910
Reply to: 12909
Self-idolatry and its pitfalls
fiogf49gjkf0d
Romy, I am not too sure you understood me at all! Celebrating yourself? That’s not strength of conviction, that suspiciously rankles of self-idolatry and we know where this strong belief in oneself led Hitler, and for that matter, Keyser Soze. Of course, one can admire the implacable sense of purpose of the powerful in their various guises, whether the Keyser Soze of Singer’s hit, or the God of the Old Testament, but it is not the way we should treat others just on the basis of who they associate with.  

Obviously, it goes without saying that somewhere along the way, we need to draw a line. If my best friend decides to become a paid up member of the British National Front, his mere association would test the bounds of our friendship, unless this was motivated by some more noble motive, say academic research.

I have not heard anything about Mr. Weiss that suggests that he is such a nefarious character that using him as a distributor (a glorified shopkeeper if I may say so) automatically disqualifies one from being treated with civility, especially when the person goes out of his way to address some of the misconceptions that this thread was being riddled with. I thought you were trying to objectively discuss the merits or demerits of the Shroder approach, at the beginning of the thread anyway, not set up a trap to lure him here, and heap a truckload of garbage on a discussion that I for one, enjoyed and found enlightening until that point.

Regards
Rakesh
02-11-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 28
Post ID: 12911
Reply to: 12910
Of course I disagree.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 oxric wrote:
Romy, I am not too sure you understood me at all! Celebrating yourself? That’s not strength of conviction, that suspiciously rankles of self-idolatry and we know where this strong belief in oneself led Hitler, and for that matter, Keyser Soze. Of course, one can admire the implacable sense of purpose of the powerful in their various guises, whether the Keyser Soze of Singer’s hit, or the God of the Old Testament, but it is not the way we should treat others just on the basis of who they associate with. 
I think you took a wrong accent. My view on the “strength of conviction” is not about declaration of character but about the demonstration of the worth of this pathetic Weiss-noise target. Let me give you an association. You walked into a room of an audio show and see a room host wearing let say Nazi’s swastika. I presume that we all understand that people are entitled to wear Nazi’s swastika if it make them happy. But I hope you would not deny my right to walk out of the room without giving damn how the room sounded? The very same with Schroder Tonearms. By associated own business with the Weiss operation Frank publicly declared that he cooperates with the dirtiest scams in audio. Is it an accident of pattern? You decide. 
 oxric wrote:
Obviously, it goes without saying that somewhere along the way, we need to draw a line. If my best friend decides to become a paid up member of the British National Front, his mere association would test the bounds of our friendship, unless this was motivated by some more noble motive, say academic research.

I have not heard anything about Mr. Weiss that suggests that he is such a nefarious character that using him as a distributor (a glorified shopkeeper if I may say so) automatically disqualifies one from being treated with civility, especially when the person goes out of his way to address some of the misconceptions that this thread was being riddled with. I thought you were trying to objectively discuss the merits or demerits of the Shroder approach, at the beginning of the thread anyway, not set up a trap to lure him here, and heap a truckload of garbage on a discussion that I for one, enjoyed and found enlightening until that point.

Again, disagree. I was trying to think about Schroder tonearms as long it made sense to talk without having the arm. I said what I feel need to be said. Was it accurate or not I do not know, they were my view, or as Frank called it “opinion instead of fact.” However, Mr. Schroder feels that his opinions are facts. There is a little deductive reasoning behind Schroder’s facts: Mr. Schroder invested own US distribution to Oswalds Mill.  The expertise, understanding and the actual Sound that Jonathan Weiss is capable off has become the representation of what Mr. Schroder dies, his face and his respect to sonic reference points. Is it possible that behind that Frank’s “technical literature” there is an absolute ignorance about needs of Sound? I would not speculate, I do not know Frank Schroder personally and the only circumstantial evidence I have is the Frank’s association with Weiss – it is enough! Leaving aside the Weiss’ frightened human qualifications and Weiss’s audio agenda the only fact that Mr. Schroder supports Weiss’ made me very question if Mr. Schroder’s talks have  any worthy practical attention. What Frank found himself is not just “quilt by association” but it rather a declaration of own reference points and it is a lot for the people of my self-idolatry level. Do not forget, Rakeshv, we in audio do not manufacture tonearms or turntables - we manufacture Sound.  Where Frank Schroder flyers in terms of Sound is hard to say without knowing him but a person who in a bed with Oswalds Mill have blown opportunity to have second first appearance.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
berlinta
Posts 4
Joined on 02-10-2010

Post #: 29
Post ID: 12912
Reply to: 12911
Boundaries
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hello Romy,

"Frank, I do not generally participate in the “technical discussions” about the tonearm design"

I took the freedom and checked your participation in related threads and found your statement not to be true.
"Saying, all of it I hope that you noted that I did not pass any specific observations about your tonearms – I have no interest or need. I did hear number of negative feedback from various people about your tonearms. I have to admit that I discard them as much as I discard the stupidly-exuberant comments about your tonearms."

Fair enough!

..."your boyfriend from Oswalds Mill"...

Absolutely superfluous, meant to insult only choice of words. My wife, if I'd show her this thread, would yell at you like a drill seargent. Her fuse is short.

"It is my firm conviction that if you are associated with Oswald’s Mill then you are a bottom of the barrel and  it is my very fundamental judgment."

"I do not have hostility toward you"

Those two sentences following each other directly are contradictory.

"I presume that we all understand that people are entitled to wear Nazi’s swastika if it make them happy. But I hope you would not deny my right to walk out of the room without giving damn how the room sounded? The very same with Schroder Tonearms."

Here in Germany(and several other countries) it is a criminal offense to disply a swastika or other Nazi insignia. In fact, if you were to publish such a comparison in Germany, one could sue you for libel. I value the freedom of expression highly, but only up to a point where discrimination of race, gender, nationality and religion sets in. I've worked for and with people from over 80 countries, from all denominations and and wide variety of cultural backgrounds for nearly 18years(German foreign office, Federal Press office, Senate of the City of Berlin, Jewish community,Turkish community, US newspapers and TV stations, The Berlin Film Festival...).  I've talked to old Nazis, Neo-Nazis and kids who just wear a swastika to piss off their parents and teachers. I would never associate myself with a Nazi(or a muslim fundamentalist, or a hardcore fan of the Stakin era USSR, etc...), but I would always try to talk with them to understand what makes them tick. As long as you can maintain a proper distance you can form a basis helping you to prevent others(kids) from falling into the trap of radicalism.
So, I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from mentioning me and National Socialism in the same context in the future.

"The expertise, understanding and the actual Sound that Jonathan Weiss is capable off has become the representation of what Mr. Schroder dies, his face and his respect to sonic reference points."

Let me assure you that no dealer(and Mr. Weiss is a dealer, not the distributor) that I cooperate with has a system that matches my sonic ideal. It would then be, quite frankly, impossible to sell anything through third persons. The enthusiasm, if not passion for music (and the gear that reproduces it) is the yardstick by which I go. That and the willingness to do as much as possible to make the customer happy.
If the dealer starts placing profit above service, he's out. If he insults a customer, he's out.

"Is it possible that behind that Frank’s “technical literature” there is an absolute ignorance about needs of Sound? I would not speculate, I do not know Frank Schroder personally and the only circumstantial evidence I have is the Frank’s association with Weiss – it is enough!"

The above sentence is exactly that: speculation
Fortunately, I do live in a culture rich environment. Like Boston, Berlin offers the benefits of both sub- and established culture, from free classical and jazz concerts to star ladden opera and theater(too much to list). I take advantage of the fact that there are three jazz clubs within walking distance of my home and the same goes for my wife who plays the violin(with her quartet rehearsing at our place from time to time). The Berlin Pilharmonic is only 20 minutes away...I know what live music sounds like, I'd even be so arrogant to say that I can tell good music from bad music. That's what I consider my reference point, not the sonic ideal of any individual. Let me repeat myself: ""I do not want to convert anyone, for me audio isn't a religion or a cult, it's a hobby first, then a profession, serving my passion for music."

I'm still waiting for you to be so kind and explain what you meant by what the quote below refers to.
"I'm not shure I got your point about "VTA/VTF lock", what do you mean by: the arm will try to "maintain VTA", despite no change in VTA(?)"

This is the last post regarding any personal issues, I promise. I just can't stand being compared to Nazis.

All the best,

Frank

02-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 30
Post ID: 12913
Reply to: 12912
Oh, come on, Frank, get life, will you!
fiogf49gjkf0d

 berlinta wrote:
..."your boyfriend from Oswalds Mill"...

Absolutely superfluous, meant to insult only choice of words. My wife, if I'd show her this thread, would yell at you like a drill seargent. Her fuse is short.

Come on, Frank, you need to be a bit less uptight.  For years I use phrase “boyfriend” as a subside-mockery of American fear of English. I refer to coworkers in corporate environment as “boyfriends” and the damage in there is much-much higher. My coworkers are laughing but you got pissed and brought your wife to the table. Get live, will you. Though I have seen as you friend from Oswalds Mill I have traded his wife as well…

 berlinta wrote:
...""It is my firm conviction that if you are associated with Oswald’s Mill then you are a bottom of the barrel and it is my very fundamental judgment."

"I do not have hostility toward you"

Those two sentences following each other directly are contradictory.

Why would it be so? I do not feel hostility even to your Oswalds Mill friend. I wish a track tomorrow run over him and kill this son of bitch but I do not feel hostility. Hostility implies engagement but I have absolutely no engagement with nether Oswalds Mill not with you at this matter.

 berlinta wrote:
Here in Germany(and several other countries) it is a criminal offense to disply a swastika or other Nazi insignia. In fact, if you were to publish such a comparison in Germany, one could sue you for libel. I value the freedom of expression highly, but only up to a point where discrimination of race, gender, nationality and religion sets in. I've worked for and with people from over 80 countries, from all denominations and and wide variety of cultural backgrounds for nearly 18years(German foreign office, Federal Press office, Senate of the City of Berlin, Jewish community,Turkish community, US newspapers and TV stations, The Berlin Film Festival...).  I've talked to old Nazis, Neo-Nazis and kids who just wear a swastika to piss off their parents and teachers. I would never associate myself with a Nazi(or a muslim fundamentalist, or a hardcore fan of the Stakin era USSR, etc...), but I would always try to talk with them to understand what makes them tick. As long as you can maintain a proper distance you can form a basis helping you to prevent others(kids) from falling into the trap of radicalism.  So, I'd appreciate it if you could refrain from mentioning me and National Socialism in the same context in the future.

Ok, first of all I did not know that you are German. When you register at my site you use provider from Belgium so I thigh that you are from there. Regardless where are you are from and who you are my illustration with Nazi swastika was just an illustration of concept and was not targeted as a pan against you. In fact if I know that you are German then I would probably use an example of blacks and KKK of something at this matter. Still, the illustration was just an illustration and there is no need to search in it anything more than it was intended.

 berlinta wrote:
"The expertise, understanding and the actual Sound that Jonathan Weiss is capable off has become the representation of what Mr. Schroder dies, his face and his respect to sonic reference points."

Let me assure you that no dealer (and Mr. Weiss is a dealer, not the distributor) that I cooperate with has a system that matches my sonic ideal. It would then be, quite frankly, impossible to sell anything through third persons. The enthusiasm, if not passion for music (and the gear that reproduces it) is the yardstick by which I go. That and the willingness to do as much as possible to make the customer happy.
If the dealer starts placing profit above service, he's out. If he insults a customer, he's out.

Fair. I do not insist that dealers/distributors necessary reflect the manufacturers’ sonic ideal but it is frequently a case. Might I ask you, Frank the German: would you appoint a person as your dealer if you know that this person let say an active member of US Nazis party, or you know that he breaking in the customer houses and still the things. In my judgment Jonathan Weiss is worse than this and he is your dealer.

 berlinta wrote:
"Is it possible that behind that Frank’s “technical literature” there is an absolute ignorance about needs of Sound? I would not speculate, I do not know Frank Schroder personally and the only circumstantial evidence I have is the Frank’s association with Weiss – it is enough!"

The above sentence is exactly that: speculation.

Of course speculation, so what? I know quite many people who are Oswalds Mill related. They all have the very same common denominator of my speculations. You would be very surprised to learn how accurate my speculations are in context many of them.

 berlinta wrote:
I'm still waiting for you to be so kind and explain what you meant by what the quote below refers to. "I'm not shure I got your point about "VTA/VTF lock", what do you mean by: the arm will try to "maintain VTA", despite no change in VTA(?)"

Let look at static VTA, sort of differentiation VTA frozen in one single point. All theories might be applied to this VTA and everything is fine. BUT, in real live static VTA does exist and needs along with arm coals is constantly bounce up and down the groove. So, more appropriate from theory level would be no do not view VTA as some kind of perm angle but rather an angle that has a vector of acceleration.  However, I argue that it has no practical meaning and I feel that efforts to enforce the VTA/VTF lock (to a degree) are not justifiable. I think you fiddle with it juts because you can and because your arm is light-suspended. In other arms the suspensions and bearing tension are stronger then vector of VTA change. However, in other arms those tension act as buffer that make a tonearm to operate stable and constantly. In your light-suspended arm everything is “exposed” and arm has no “start”, no entry reference point if you know what I mean. I presume that this is why some people complain about your arms as they find it too tweaky and too vulnerable to the conditions. In my view the greatest arms have that perfect balance what the arm need to react upon and what it need discard or “swallow” by own tensions. In my view the 3012 has this perfect balance. I do not use your arms but from what people say in this thread as from my understanding how your arm work I feel that your arms might need to have some “tension grounders”.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 31
Post ID: 12914
Reply to: 12913
This is about music reproduction, right?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Romy,

 

As with all such matters,

‘Tis dangerous when the baser nature comes

Between the pass and fell incensed points

Of mighty opposites.

(Hamlet)

I should leave aside matters that are clearly of a personal nature since I don’t imagine I will ever have the first-hand evidence to make up my own mind about Mr. Weiss and his product line is of really no interest to me.

To close a discussion that will almost certainly achieve nothing, a couple of points, if I may.

I would like to point out that Frank does mention that he came close to falling out with Mr. Weiss:

 berlinta wrote:

Many years ago, Mr. Weiss attacked me and my product publicly with equal rudeness(he does have a bad temper from time to time, but you ain't no slouch either :-). Instead of firing back even harder, I approached him to see if I could get him to listen to my position and he did. He has treated me with respect ever since and unless he changes this attitude, I see no reason to follow your position. Especially since you seem to project your hostility onto my person, without ever having met me.  

If that’s true, I am not too sure Mr. Weiss demonstrated the professionalism one would expect from one who makes a living from the audio industry. If that’s true, my reaction might have been quite different to that of Frank, and almost beyond doubt different to yours – I imagined you would have used Macondo as a battering ram. But Frank wanted to see if reasonable and civilised behaviour could prevail. He swallowed his pride and tried to end the whole sorry episode with both parties coming out with what look likes a mature and mutually acceptable solution. Apologies were extended, notes made of what gave offense and promises to behave better in the future followed, one would imagine. It’s about being human, we make mistakes, we say sorry, we make amends, we move on.

I just wished you would find it in you, out of fairness and common courtesy, to keep the thread within the boundaries within which it was raised, that is a technical discussion on the approach of Frank Shroder to the design of his tonearms. Remember some of us, like you, may not assiduously frequent some of the other forums populated with maybe less ‘interesting’ contributors. Some of us, unlike you, may not have the funds to spend on a tonearm that cost as much as a decent second-hand car or feed a whole village in a developing country for a year. Irrespective of Frank Shroder’s pricing strategy, however, if one was looking for one’s very last tonearm, then $7000 may be in that context a reasonable price to pay. Given that the true masters of the art of making tonearms are a declining and dying breed, it  would appear a good thing if one would make Frank Shroder feel welcome to take part in a technical discussion without fear of being attacked because of the virulence of your feelings for a third party with whom he has merely a business relationship on the face of it.

Let me quote from yourself Romy, to reiterate what I thought was in part the point of your website.

Romy wrote:

Performed music is music contaminated, or in some instances enriched, by a fused awareness of many people: conductors, musicians, various environmental variables, listeners and few others. To observe the delta between the raw "primary musicality" and "live" music delivered to us as a "Symphony Hall’s product" is one is the most fascinating parts of dealing with music. However, in case of a Recorded and Reproduced music there is something else on a picture. Sound reproduction injects into a sandwich of the "delivered music" one extra level of contamination – the interpretation of the original musicality/performing intentions by the soulless algorithms of a sound reproduction chain. Any humane interpretation, even corruptions or aberrations, have own causes and motives; they can be related to because they are based of a common to us sense of humanity, reasons and consequences. Contrary to this, the mechanisms of "unconscious" sound reproduction: the eclectic and mechanical conversions themselves can not relate to the initial musical initiatives (although there is much more in here to talk) and their injections into the Reproduced Musicality introduce a permanent de-humanized layer, that is an unfortunate obstacle for our humane listening consciousness, and that obstacle impedes our ability to find a relation between our own experiences and the experiences of the expressed musical idea.

Maybe I just don’t get it but this seems to say that all music, at all its various stages, is concerned with interpretation and it is our shared culture that makes us react in a certain way to the musical event. We may not like the composer, Romy, or the manufacturer , or the ‘Weiss-noise’ but surely the human element cannot be eliminated and is always essential whether we like it or not. Frank Shroder may not have the creative power, or the inclination, any more than you or I do, to compose music but he is no less an important part of our hobby’s landscape. We may not like his business relations, but these are not the same as affiliations, and we ought to listen in case he has something interesting to add to this ongoing  debate about audio that will continue long after you or I have left these mortal coils. You do seem to have a fondness for Richard Wagner as a composer, even though he authored Das Judentum in der Musik ("Jewishness in Music", 1850), a polemic directed against Jewish composers in general. Sometime we need to look beyond our immediate gut reaction or there is a lot which is good about life, and people in general, that we will miss in our too short lifespan.

02-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 32
Post ID: 12915
Reply to: 12914
To me it is a deal breaker, nothing else need to be said.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 oxric wrote:
I just wished you would find it in you, out of fairness and common courtesy, to keep the thread within the boundaries within which it was raised, that is a technical discussion on the approach of Frank Shroder to the design of his tonearms. Remember some of us, like you, may not assiduously frequent some of the other forums populated with maybe less ‘interesting’ contributors. Some of us, unlike you, may not have the funds to spend on a tonearm that cost as much as a decent second-hand car or feed a whole village in a developing country for a year. Irrespective of Frank Shroder’s pricing strategy, however, if one was looking for one’s very last tonearm, then $7000 may be in that context a reasonable price to pay. Given that the true masters of the art of making tonearms are a declining and dying breed, it would appear a good thing if one would make Frank Shroder feel welcome to take part in a technical discussion without fear of being attacked because of the virulence of your feelings for a third party with whom he has merely a business relationship on the face of it.

I do not share this sentiment. Honestly, all conversation that Frank Shroder put up do not truly have any meaning if there is no reference point how it all relates to anything. It is like a DC voltage. It might measure 4V but if you ground at minus 40V then you need really re-interpret what voltage you have and absolute number become less relevant then relative numbers. The people who run their mouths on all imaginable technical subjects are fine but how it all relates to sound? Well, go the same diyaudio.com and read the pontification of Dr. Geglee about loudspeakers. He is unquestionably a very clever fellow but sonically he has intelligence at a level of a marble statue. Most of the DIYers in audio are the very same boat and my position about them is well known. Again, tonearm is not the objective, the sound that a tonearm does is. That is the target of the interests. I am ok when people use different right or wrong theories or concepts to make audio. I am OK what people do not give shit about sound and use audio juts as money making tool. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. The Oswald Mills cretin is in very different business – it is not about money and it is not about audio. You need to know the person to understand what kind aberration it is. Frank Shroder deals with this aberration and he shares business with him. So, Frank Shroder is the person of Jonathan Weiss level - there is nothing further could be said and his technical discussions worth as much as Weiss “technical discussions” or the “technical discussions” or that Brazilian AudioVoice retard.  I do extend anathema to all that trash and if Frank Shroder is willing to be part of it then it is his chose. I have no need to advocate my position.

 oxric wrote:
Maybe I just don’t get it but this seems to say that all music, at all its various stages, is concerned with interpretation and it is our shared culture that makes us react in a certain way to the musical event. We may not like the composer, Romy, or the manufacturer , or the ‘Weiss-noise’ but surely the human element cannot be eliminated and is always essential whether we like it or not. Frank Shroder may not have the creative power, or the inclination, any more than you or I do, to compose music but he is no less an important part of our hobby’s landscape. We may not like his business relations, but these are not the same as affiliations, and we ought to listen in case he has something interesting to add to this ongoing  debate about audio that will continue long after you or I have left these mortal coils. You do seem to have a fondness for Richard Wagner as a composer, even though he authored Das Judentum in der Musik ("Jewishness in Music", 1850), a polemic directed against Jewish composers in general. Sometime we need to look beyond our immediate gut reaction or there is a lot which is good about life, and people in general, that we will miss in our too short lifespan.

Oxric, are you under some kind of impression that I do not like Weiss’ speakers or his amplifiers and it makd me to behave in the way I do? You are very naïve then. Take me serious. My abhorrence of that dirt is at much more sane level then this. Wait until the Oswald Mills “human” kidnap your wife and sell her to some kind of slavery. Then he will use the money he got to promote something you have spent you live to fight against. Then when he run out of money he will send you an invoice to demand pay more. Then he will start a marketing campaign that would tarnish you as a person who ordered from him an expensive tonearm but refuse to pay the closing invoice. This is not so much fantasy – this is how that human waste lives and thinks. Good luck Frank Schroder with your associate!

Then caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 33
Post ID: 12916
Reply to: 12915
Indulge one last observation
fiogf49gjkf0d

Romy,

For what it’s worth, I do not doubt that your grievances when it comes to Mr. Weiss extend beyond not liking his products and amount to such a deep-seated abhorrence of his whole being, that it taints anything or anyone that comes close to him. I did my research and I saw enough to see in Mr. Weiss a rather unlikable fellow emerge through the postings (tauntings might be a more appropriate word) on audioasylum in 2006 when relations had already soured in the ‘Cogent loudspeaker thread.’ He baited you. You struck back in your inimitable fashion. Then it got predictable. When we wear our heart on our sleeves, people learn how to pull our stops, and they played you in order to get rid of you.

You are who you are, and there is no chance that you will change your views on this but your inclination to paint everyone with the same brush is however my point. You used Keyser Soze, as an illustration of the power of one’s convictions. Without commenting on the appropriateness of the analogy, let me mention that our recent  history of the past twenty years, starting with the Glasnost of Michael Gorbachev, the Nelson Mandela years post-1989, and the peace process of Northern Ireland, was all about ignoring the unpalatable connections of some of the key characters who sat at the negotiation tables. The result was the end of the totalitarian system in the Soviet Union, the fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of apartheid in South Africa and the IRA laying down arms in Northern Ireland. The world is a better place as a result.

In this instance, the stakes are not so high. You can do as you please, but in my opinion, it is a mistake. This approach has two main consequences that I would like you to reflect on. First and foremost, it will discourage people like Frank Shroder to post on your website, even if only to defend their good name or clarify some issues that your website has somehow managed to distort or presented inaccurately. They know there is little hope they will be treated with civility. Secondly, by doing so, you will encourage a breed of hangers-on and would-be ‘copycats’ to converge on your site. I am surprised that of all the people who regularly post on your website, no-one was prepared to tell you plain and simple that your attitude is wrong-headed, belligerent and unproductive. Surely even if many by some remarkable coincidence see eye-to-eye with you on this, there must be some who don’t. But they stay quiet and lurk in the shadows. Is this the world you want to live in, given that your website seems to be one of the very few where you can post nowadays? Ponder this.

One other thing, Romy, I find despicable that you should mention my wife in this discussion, even hypothetically, and irrespective of the point you were trying to make. I know you might say that you did not even know that I was married but the odds were rather high, weren’t they? That stratagem does not advance your argument but rather robs it of its credibility. My wife is Italian, absolutely adorable and yes, I do live in daily fear that she might be kidnapped!

Frank,

I love Berlin and I am well aware of what a great place it can be for music lovers, and indeed lovers of fine food, although admittedly I have rather little fondness for German cuisine. In fact we love Germany, and hope that in the not too distant future, we will move to France, within an hour’s drive or so of the border, although still not so close to Berlin, which should give my wife a chance to practice her German and me a chance to learn the language. I am glad to see the exciting state of analog in Germany, and interestingly enough, some of these companies seem to have taken a leaf from the basic philosophy espoused by the Micro Seikis our host is very fond of. I am always amazed by how much my German friends love music, especially classical music, from a very young age. I remember one university friend especially, who when we would be organising a night out at the pub or clubbing, would be off to see a live classical music performance at the Proms in Central London, even on the little allowance that he had.

Regards
Rakesh

02-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 34
Post ID: 12917
Reply to: 12916
To accuse me in ... in this context? The defense rests.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 oxric wrote:
You can do as you please, but in my opinion, it is a mistake. This approach has two main consequences that I would like you to reflect on. First and foremost, it will discourage people like Frank Shroder to post on your website, even if only to defend their good name or clarify some issues that your website has somehow managed to distort or presented inaccurately. They know there is little hope they will be treated with civility. Secondly, by doing so, you will encourage a breed of hangers-on and would-be ‘copycats’ to converge on your site. I am surprised that of all the people who regularly post on your website, no-one was prepared to tell you plain and simple that your attitude is wrong-headed, belligerent and unproductive. Surely even if many by some remarkable coincidence see eye-to-eye with you on this, there must be some who don’t. But they stay quiet and lurk in the shadows. Is this the world you want to live in, given that your website seems to be one of the very few where you can post nowadays? Ponder this.

Do you feel that you reveal to me something that I do not know, or you feel that your reaction is spontaneous and unprompted? I am not in the business to win hart and minds and I have no interest try convincing anybody that “Berlin philharmonic is 7 blocks from me”. This site is perfectly reflects all my idiocy and I am very fine with it. If you insulted by it then just stop reading this site


 oxric wrote:
One other thing, Romy, I find despicable that you should mention my wife in this discussion, even hypothetically, and irrespective of the point you were trying to make. I know you might say that you did not even know that I was married but the odds were rather high, weren’t they? That stratagem does not advance your argument but rather robs it of its credibility. My wife is Italian, absolutely adorable and yes, I do live in daily fear that she might be kidnapped!

Rakesh, I am sorry but I admit that it was a bit stupid to accuse me in any insensitivity in this context, even if you feel that the “odds were rather high”. I wrote initially about kidnapping of a daughter (saw last night another damn movie where former Oscar Schindler kills all those French people to liberate his kidnapped but incredibly stupid daughter). But after a few attempts to spell “daughter” I was not successful and I used instead an easy for spelling word "wife". That was the all “odds and stratagems”. My apology if I hit too close to the subject of your phobia, it was not my intention but never forgers that this thread is not about your fears but apparently about Romy’s blind ruthlessness.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-12-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 35
Post ID: 12920
Reply to: 12917
The defense rests...having achieved what?
fiogf49gjkf0d

Romy,

As I said, it is your site, both a blessing and a curse. You do as you please. 

Romy wrote:

This site is perfectly reflects all my idiocy and I am very fine with it. If you insulted by it then just stop reading this site

I am not insulted. There is no reason to be. In hindsight, I am a fool and ought to have known better than to say anything at all. It’s not as if my protest got this thread anywhere other than where it was headed anyway, once you had your target in your sightline.    

Romy wrote:

My apology if I hit too close to the subject of your phobia, it was not my intention but never forgers that this thread is not about your fears but apparently about Romy’s blind ruthlessness.


And you must excuse my ineffectual attempt at injecting a tiny dose of humour in this thread.


Romy wrote:

I am not in the business to win hart and minds and I have no interest try convincing anybody that “Berlin philharmonic is 7 blocks from me”.

Nobody would dream of accusing you of that Romy. Your honesty may be, as you put it, ‘ruthless’, and that can be sometime a welcome and refreshing change, but your choice of target is somewhat too indiscriminate, in my opinion.
 

 Romy wrote:

To accuse me in ... in this context? The defense rests.

Your reading of my posts is very selective Romy. I was not accusing you, just commenting on a different approach which would have made this thread more productive, from the point of view of my interests, nothing more, nothing less. You are free to do as you please (albeit within legal rules relating to publishing anything online, such as libel, the laws relating to incitement to terrorism and suchlike), it is your domain. There are in fact quite a few areas where I do agree with your views, which is why I do read your site and quite a few others where I don't, although my natural tendency is to resist temptation and keep my peace, which I will remind myself, is the right approach, when everything is said and done.

Regards
Rakesh
02-13-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 36
Post ID: 12924
Reply to: 12920
Having achieved what?
fiogf49gjkf0d
An interesting question. What kind achievement one can expect from a person who claims that Schroder Tonearms are distinct by the Mark of Devil due to their association with Jonathan Weiss? If I have some kind of idiotic delusion and would tell story about people walking on water or Immaculate Conception then I would be conceded as a “sane Christian”. Instead, as Mr. Schroder insisted, I presented facts: Jonathan Weiss is the dark force servant/slave and Frank Schroder is his business associate. As anything else might be said to ignite my interest to the Schroder tonearms? Ah, I forgot, I need to participate in the “technical discussions” about the nature of magmatic force in Hell and to compare notes how fast humans might be full-roasted in relation to how frequently they are turned over. Jonathan Weiss is a good cook, I am sure he has tough Franck Schroder a lot….

The caT
 


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-14-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
be
Copenhagen, Denmark
Posts 86
Joined on 02-11-2007

Post #: 37
Post ID: 12929
Reply to: 12912
S. tone arm
fiogf49gjkf0d
Schroeder wrote:

“My arms each take between 25 and 70 hours to make.”

From that it  follows that it takes you about 7-9 hours to wash the dishes.

Then no wonder that your wife is a bit tense:

“My wife, if I'd show her this thread, would yell at you like a drill seargent. Her fuse is short.”

Be Wink

02-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
oxric
Posts 194
Joined on 02-11-2010

Post #: 38
Post ID: 12940
Reply to: 12929
To be or not to be - that is the question...or is there something rotten in the state of Denmark?
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hi Be:

This is just such a significant bit of insight that I am still reeling from the sheer perspicacity of it. Unlike poor Frank's disappointed wife, your very fortunate better half must be so impressed by that cunning mathematical brain of yours. 

Wow, wow, wow... 

All the best
Rakesh

02-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Stitch


Behind The Sun
Posts 235
Joined on 01-15-2009

Post #: 39
Post ID: 12942
Reply to: 12940
Which direction?
fiogf49gjkf0d
All those "discussions" about the Sonic Quality from Schroeder Arms are similar to ask a Blind for the direction.(or to ask for a lab report from the latest hyped DIY unit)


Kind Regards
Stitch
02-15-2010 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,730
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 40
Post ID: 12945
Reply to: 12942
Discussions about the Sonic Quality of hyped products.
fiogf49gjkf0d

 Stitch wrote:
All those "discussions" about the Sonic Quality from Schroeder Arms are similar to ask a Blind for the direction.(or to ask for a lab report from the latest hyped DIY unit)

I think it is wider then just Schroeder arms. Did you see ANY discussions about the Sonic Quality of hyped products? Did you pay attention that they do not exist? I mean the herded morons constantly believe that they talk about Sound but in reality they just recite the artificial taking points were given to them by the people who light up the hype. I have seen zillion exemplas and I do have very high sensitivity to distinct an original thinking about Sound from the empty-headed semantic blabbering about audio where words have no sensed meaning (90% of all conversations by audio people).

Saying all of it in the Schroeder thread I do not insist that nether Frank Schroeder or his arms are subordinates of the above mention percentage. As I told above I have my rational do not give damn about anything Schroeder-related. The fact that Schroedists admiration I have heard about are coming from the sleaziest scams do not help to the Schroeder tonearms.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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