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  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  551937  07-29-2007
  »  New  Dannoy 2021 Loudspeakers..  It?...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     18  11513  08-04-2021
  »  New  Bermuda Triangles of Audio..  Tannoy carton issues...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  4210  11-09-2021
02-03-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 181
Post ID: 26701
Reply to: 26700
Another year...



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-03-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 90
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 182
Post ID: 26702
Reply to: 26700
90 dB
First, I cross over the Dannoy's at 60 Hz., fourth order Linkiwitz Reilly  to a JL Audio f113 subwoofer. I get about 89 dB before the cone starts distorting. This is where the surrounds come in. As in the concert hall where, depending on where you sit, anywhere from 10 to 80% of the sound is from the hall, I can get up to 98 dB where my ears give out. If I cross over at 80 hz. I get about 96 db before distortion from the cones reaching their maximum.The 50 hz. Horns are from my original horn setup which I was holding onto until I was sure the Dannoy's would work out. Also, I still don't know how I will break them down as they each weigh over 600 lbs, and are too large to fit through my room,s doors as they were built in the room. Plus, they are filled with sand, which will probably make a mess of the room.
02-03-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,417
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 183
Post ID: 26703
Reply to: 26701
"This video is private":
I guess the legend speaks truth; it won't open for me, anyway...


Paul S
02-03-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 90
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 184
Post ID: 26704
Reply to: 26703
Not for me either
Not for me either
02-03-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,417
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 185
Post ID: 26705
Reply to: 26702
Best Use of Assets
Bill, if one assumes headroom for satisfactory peaks, and given the rest of your set-up, it "sounds like" you are effectively using your Dannoys to butter up the overall sound, like a sort of improved injection channel. As for all the sand, perhaps lever up the horns and pull heavy plastic underneath and around, and try to dribble the sand out onto that. ZipPole makes patent telescoping poles one can use with painter's plastic to "tent off" parts you're working on, or stuff you want to protect, keeps most of the dust localized, if/as needed. Very large vacuum cleaners are out there, for rent, with or without services.


Best regards,
Paul S
02-03-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 571
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 186
Post ID: 26706
Reply to: 26699
Good!
Thanks Bill for your input, helpful as always! Quite a journey, congrats.

My space at this moment is tiny compared to yours: Irregular shape, some 3.4m from the speakers' location to the opposite wall (depth), about 1.7m separation between the speakers, a partially open space behind the speakers, around 4.5m wide space opening to a hall, a 2.7m high ceiling.

As you used both, how did the English crossover compared to the original Tannoy's? Did you mod it like Romy?
You biamp with B2, I suppose one powers the Reds, the other the woofers? Did you do anything to B2's (cleaning, bypassing the commutators, changing caps etc)?


My enclousure plans. 25mm MDF or birch ply:

Dannoy_v2.jpg

Cheers, Jarek





Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
02-20-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 187
Post ID: 26708
Reply to: 26706
Here we go....



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-21-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,417
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 188
Post ID: 26709
Reply to: 26708
Yup
Yes, it's been that way for me, too, for years, now; "solutions" are no longer considered good enough if they yield only intermittant Musical satisfaction, or if getting and keeping things optimal for each session takes "too much" time and effort. Like I've told here, I'm down to one powerful amp per speaker, albeit each of my amps has two pairs of binding posts, as they are designed for "bi-wiring", one pair for LF, and the other pair for the rest. And this amp design plays into the design of my current project speakers. It's been way more work than I wanted to do, but I seem to have hypnotized myself into starting this project. Perhaps there are ready-made efficient speakers for me out there somewhere; but it takes a long time to embed and settle down with speakers, and too much money to ante up, based on a showroom audition.

As an aside, Romy, I think I remember the JBL 375 as an efficient driver with the potential for "kindness"?


Best regards,
Paul S
02-22-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
anthony
Posts 311
Joined on 08-18-2014

Post #: 189
Post ID: 26710
Reply to: 26708
Deja what?
Thought I would put your vid up on the tv for the first time...am having some kind of weird moment looking past my Macondo to your Macondo.  Probably should have closed the blinds behind me to lessen the morning light reflecting off the television.

Deja What.jpg
02-23-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 190
Post ID: 26711
Reply to: 26710
Thanks.
I never laugh so hard from my site.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-24-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 90
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 191
Post ID: 26712
Reply to: 26711
Update on Gaw Dannoy
Last week found that the distortion I was having was due to some small separations of the woofer cone from the surround suspension probably from age and playing too loud. Applied the glue to them received from English tannoy dealer and distortion is gone. Decided that I do need the increased volume at times beyond what one tannoy can do without damaging cone, and need to be careful as there don't seem to be any replace,ent cones available.
Therefor, I removed the scanspeak driver and added second 10 inch tannoy red to each box.Running only the upper tweeter and have the two woofer drivers powered in series as they have 4 ohm impedance. Now getting about 6 dB loudness gain without distortion or damage to cones plus an improvement in the dynamics and distortion. With the Trinnov doing both dsp and acting as the digital active crossover at 60 and 1700 hz., the speaker drivers are almost perfectly time aligned with subwoofer curve starting before mid curve ends, and less than +/- 2 dB across the whole frequency band from 20 to 18,000 hz., Including the crossover points. The sound is great, but still don't have what Romy did in his room.Therefor trying to decide whether to punch a hole in the side of the cabinets to place the scanspeak drivers in passive mode to see if that does it. Just afraid it may damage the sound I have now. Any thoughts?Bill
02-25-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,417
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 192
Post ID: 26713
Reply to: 26712
So Many Changes...
Bill, you have made lots of changes in a "short" time period. I hope you kept track of all of it. Knowing nothing about your sound, I can only repeat that Romy said the Dannoy sonic fulcrum was the interaction between FR Tannoy and "passive" Scanspeak, and you apparently have the "magic enclosure" that started this ball rolling. What I heard from Romy was that "better sound" did not make more magic, but the most magic was had from the original accident, warts and all. Also not sure how DSP factors into any magic, if that's what interests you.

Best regards,
Paul S
02-26-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 90
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 193
Post ID: 26714
Reply to: 26713
Last night
While the pure power units are the best I’ve heard at removing ac grunge, they are still not 100% effective. Last night my listening and video session was unbelievable. We had about a foot of very light soft snow during the day. As soon as I turned on the system I knew I was going to be in for a treat. On the video side, the projector was brighter with more color. Audio was about 6 dB louder; things I would normally listen to at -16 dB were turned down to about -22 dB and could hear things like hall air conditioning at the beginning of recordings. Sound stage was wider, deeper, with more ambiance and room feel. Same thing has happened in the past during fluffy snow storm, but not close to what I heard last night, possibly because of the Dannoy’s and Yamaha B2,s. Does not seem to occur with heavy snow or ice storm. A mystery! I live in the country with very little manufacturing within 25 miles, so it wasn't the shutdown of those facilities cleaning the electricity. Think it possibly could be the insulating of the electric lines by the snow hanging on them. Anyway, will see what happens tonight after the snow falls from the lines. Bill
02-27-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 412
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 194
Post ID: 26716
Reply to: 26714
Humidity?
With paper cones, there is always the issue of humidity. The woofer cones behave much differently depending on the amount of moisture, ambient temperature - perhaps even air pressure? Maybe we need some information in this direction?


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
02-27-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,417
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 195
Post ID: 26717
Reply to: 26716
Pretty Much Everything...
True enough, Robin, whether or not this factor was critical in this case. My extensive mad experiments with de-constructing and reconstructing paper coned drivers a few years back showed me it's not necessarilly helpful to get off the beaten path with driver cones, including doping, swapping surrounds and spyders, and even the glue one uses to join given parts, not to mention formers, voice coils, and frames. And then we start with baffles, enclosures, rooms; the list goes on and on. What is "funny" to me about Bill's Great Electricity Session is that it has happened to me, when the electricity is just great, and it seems like all the particular problems to that point are simply subsumed. Not so sure, however, what good sound with great electricity tells us about Remedios at a given point in time, except the fact that it happened means it can sound like that. Which is good... I suppose. Does this mean Bill's current iteration of Remedios now needs only better electricity feeding the rest of his system?


Paul S
04-05-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 571
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 196
Post ID: 26743
Reply to: 26706
I want to lick them
Finally after endless waiting the boxes are here. The pics don't do the justice, the cabinet makers did an excellent job! 25mm MDF, sift edges. The inside lined with 50mm thick acoustic damping foam (about 1m2 per speaker).

NsetDannoy1.jpg NsetDannoy2.jpg

I have one little construction problem to solve. I want to have the
Tannoy crossover outside the box, meaning I need to drill a 18mm hole to pass the Tannoy plug. Any ideas how to acoustically seal the hole with the cable? I was thinking of just silicone but I'd prefer it to be removable.

TannoyPlug.jpeg



Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
04-05-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 90
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 197
Post ID: 26744
Reply to: 26743
Look great
Use plumber's putty.If you have 4 of the tannoy drivers try using two in each cabinet but only drive one tweeter. Adds 6 dB before distortion.while the sound is very good, it doesn't quite have the sound I heard at Romy's, but he hasn't been able to recreate it either.I don't know whether this will work with the tannoy crossover, as I am using my Trinnov Altitude processor for crossover, 4 th order at 1700 hz, and crossing over to JL audio f 113 sub at 60 hz.
04-05-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 571
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 198
Post ID: 26745
Reply to: 26744
Something more elegant
Thanks Bill! I'll prefer to use something more elegant than the putty (which will harden with time).
I go with the passive radiator not double Reds. My space is pretty small so I hope a single Red will do.


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
05-02-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 571
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 199
Post ID: 26765
Reply to: 26743
Okay, made first sounds
Made first sounds with my Dannoy incarnation. Hard to comment on it now  as my setup turns out to have some problems:
1. I haven't bypassed the B2's input circuits yet. And they do kill the sound - one slight move of one of the potentiometers  at the front and it almost cuts a channel. I have the service manual and have to figure out how to bypass it (if anyone has a step by step instruction I'd appreciate - B2's are rare and afraid of damaging it).
2. One of the Red's original crossover seems to cut most of the bass (dry caps?). I've contacted the UK gentleman and will get an aftermarket xovers to try.
3. In lieu of a better preamp, I'm using this Yamaha C2, which as I understand is not up to the B2's level. I'm planning to construct sth similar to Anthony's: 801A with Bartola gyrator boards and Slagle autoformer.

Another thing is speaker's placement - placed them just whatever. Will start measuring what's happening in my room soon.
All in all, so far I did hear some interesting moments even with such a compromised setup, but nothing of an epiphany yet (I'm also spoiled by years of listening on top notch electrostatic headphones).




Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
05-02-2022 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 90
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 200
Post ID: 26766
Reply to: 26765
English crossover
I have a pair of the english crossovers with russian caps i dopn't need willing tgo sell for half price if you are in the US and waNT THEM. They hAVE A CLEANER SDOUND THAN MY TWO SETS OF ORIGINAL CROSSOVERS but not as roman tic.am using my trinnov altitude 16 as crossovers and like the sound.For the B2's. Keep playing with the p[ush buttons. they tend to clean themselves with multiple pushing. Also try both input and output chaNNELS.Bill
Page 10 of 12 (226 items) Select Pages:  « First ... « 8 9 10 11 12 »
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  551937  07-29-2007
  »  New  Dannoy 2021 Loudspeakers..  It?...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     18  11513  08-04-2021
  »  New  Bermuda Triangles of Audio..  Tannoy carton issues...  Playback Listening  Forum     5  4210  11-09-2021
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