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In the Forum: Playback Listening
In the Thread: 2+3 surround sound??
Post Subject: The answer is in the bassPosted by N-set on: 9/27/2025
Paul, my main challenge since the Dannoys has been to add spatial clues I need to start reading the music material better. Another issue is the lack of enough energy in lower to mid bass registers with orchestral music, I'm missing  that "grand" sound output, but what can one ask from a single 10" driver even listening near field? In my view, a big part of those problems is connected to the lack of LF extension and secondary to the small, acoustically dead listening space I have now. Since extending LF with dedicated bass channel(s) was opted out by both my little sub experiment and the analysis of Edgar and Romy of the Dannoy LF, RI stood out as a chance to improve the presentation. I had earlier added supertweeters (Tannoy ST-50), seeking a way to open up the sound and disconnect it from the speakers (will comment on that later), but that was rather small cosmetics. Of course another option is to change the Dannoys to sth else but I wanted to continue the experiment, seduced by the Dannoys bass like by a siren's song, plus my current real estate will not allow for a proper U/LF implementation anyway. When it comes to task number one - the spatial clues - the RI does it wonderfully!! Or at least my honeymoon with it is not over yet. I think this is a brilliant solution for small, awkward spaces. It opens up and transforms the space immediately, sculptures the sound in the space, on all of the material I've tested so far with a varying level of being convincing, depending on the material/DSP preset (and there are 6 halls + chamber + church = 8 presets to choose from plus ability to create own). A lot of my listening is baroque and here already Dannoys were very good in my space, but with RI it is all shining! The consorts I've listened to so far finally "got the balls" and sound like proper consorts not flat 2D projections, which how I hear them now with RI switched off. It ignites a range of emotions (including child like curiosity Smile which I haven't had for a long time listening to a playback.  Same with chamber music, e.g. string quartets or piano + violin duets, it allows to hear the performers 3D and study how they interpret/interact/shape the narration. With orchestras, which is probably what you would like to hear, the effect is less pronounced - the spatial clues are helping a lot to shape the sound more convincingly. "The bass perception" for a lack of a better expression is improved, like Romy predicted - it feels there is more energy in the lower registers. But it is still not "it". There is still lower energy and spaciousness missing. The Lubeck B8 CD did not ignite special sensations in me so far. I'm not getting that special/spatial impressions that Romy has been prising here. but I did not play with the presents much plus my CD chain is simplistic. I have not listened to  the Wald's Harmonia Mundi LP yet, which so far has been my B8 reference.  I havn't tried operas yet due to constant lack of time. I think the above shows RI is doing magic but not endlessly. The lack of a proper U/LF so needed for the orchestra reproduction, can be compensated for by RI, but only up to some point. 

 Romy the Cat wrote:

As I said before, DSP 3000 the most advanced If you would like to use the classic Yamaha reverberation fields ejection, but many of those units very faulty.

Does DSP3000 use a different/more elaborate processing engine (although DSp3000 is older)? I was trying to get some info on that but could not. And have you been able to directly compare DSP3000 vs DSP-100? I'm wondering it it makes sense to try to restore my DSP3000 which sounds like a pain.
 Romy the Cat wrote:
Now about being reversible. What you are saying is pretty much my position a few years ago when I vigorously advocated reverberation injection for any sensible playback installation. My position absolutely not changed on the subject, however my objective what I would like to accomplish are changed very dramatically.   This might be a subject for a separate conversation and I do not want to talk about it here. All that I am saying that I am having fully operational and very well performing injection in both Auro and Yamaha format and I not very frequently use it. In fact I mostly use them to impress visitors but for myself I use it very selectively.

Again, I think the bass is the answer. You have an elaborate, multichannel U/LF implementation to start with (and a big enough space). You were mentioning your "black hole", sucking in, bass. My dream is to have it. If I had that, I guess I'd look at RI differently. But in my circumstances and for now, RI is doing a wonderful job and I can't see a way back.
 Romy the Cat wrote:
That last thing is about recommendation of anything. Unfortunately, I do not feel it is practically possible. In organization of reverberation injections, there are so many variables dealing with idiosynthesis of a given playback, given room, giving user preferences that to bring any general recommendations here without being in the room make it impossible to reflect what's going on in the room from a distance...

So far, I've been following the Yamaha recommendation for positioning the RI channels and  setting the volume by ear - there is a transition point. When you cross it, the RI starts to stand out and call the attention too much. I'm wondering if you played with your own presets?

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