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In the Forum: Horn-Loaded Speakers
In the Thread: Macondo 3.0
Post Subject: You are very correct.Posted by Romy the Cat on: 7/12/2023
 anthony wrote:
Looks like the Red 10's are circa 92dB/w/m as an entire "speaker" including woofer.  I've never played with them before, but I wonder how much, if any, SPL is scrubbed from the tweeter by the crossover so that it matches the woofer.  Romy, from what I can tell you are using the Pepper Pot via the standard Tannoy crossover, and if so then I can perhaps understand why Melquiades does not like them ay 92dB sensitivity.  If the crossover is attenuating the tweeter then perhaps the Melq will perform better without the default crossover in play.  Of course I can figure this out myself by diving into my attic to haul down my pair but this may be something you have already investigated...not sure.

The B3 amp is nothing special based on specifications, and indeed has a high output impedance for a SS amp that is quite similar to a fullrange Melquiades channel, not that damping factor should really matter for a tweeter.  I've been unable to find gain of the B3 amplifiers.  Perhaps the B3/Pepper Pot just works because of the 70w of power matched with a 92dB/w/m sensitivity speaker, but it is only capable of 6dB more output than fullrange Melq assuming gain is similar.  Melq will drive the tweeter via the crossover to perhaps 104dB at 16w (say 101dB at chair) whereas the B3 will drive to 110dB at 64w (say 107dB at chair).

That and B3 full output is as 1Vrms whereas Melq is cira 4Vrms.

Romy, have you tried the Red tweeter without the standard crossover and does sensitivity improve?  Sounds to me like the problem with Melq...just working too hard to get any volume.

Anthony, you are absolutely correct asking those questions. They are exactly the same questions I've been asking myself, but I did not have YET time to do all those experiments to aals it to myself sensibly. I have multiple crossover options for Red Twitter and it is possible that if Melquiades drives the Red Twitter directly then it will be able to handle it. I did not have time to play with any options and I drive the Red Twitter only by B3 not by chose but by methodological protection (read below). The original Tannoy crossover has no attenuation of signal for Twitter, but it has a transformer that for sure matches the tweeter’s sensitivity to the woofer.  I care less about the sensitivity per say but rather the following factor.
 
The Red driver, including the Tweeter has a tenancy to “thissinessss”.  It is stunningly pleasurable coloration, amazingly pleasurable but it is still a coloration and I cannot not to acknowledge that if this character of sound presented in all music then it's become a bit annoying. This thissinessss is very interesting and it not sitting at very top but somewhere around 8-9K. With all gorgeousness of the sound that I have now I still acknowledge that a very minor thissinessss is still here. That is why I will continue to work with crossover trying to get rid of this. Here is the kicker in all the story: I had absolutely no thissinessss 2 years ago what I was running my Dannoy from S3 with a default crossover. So, I keep the S3 amps for now as reference in order to keep a common denominator between now and the time when I had absolutely clear sound.  If I have absolutely clear sound from my current configuration, only then I will experiment with alternative application. Trust me, I would love Melquiades to be able to drive the Red Tweeter and I have two channels on Melquiades that are idling for now.
 
I think something in the Dannoy configuration 2 years back (passively loaded Red driver) created some kind of resonance at lower range which was able damp the Red’s Tweeter resonance at 8-9K. It is very delicate, and I have no grip on it yet. I need to do more experiments and I would like to address one problem at a time to keep myself from making wrong conclusions.

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