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Posted on: 10-29-08

Romy the Cat

Boston, MA
Posts: 9650



Thread: Adding one more spherical to Macondo.
           Reply: The low-path knee of Fundamentals Channel.  
fiogf49gjkf0d

 jessie.dazzle wrote:
There should be no danger in running the S3s down to 500Hz; I am currently running a pair of S2s (same diaphragm as S3) down to 450Hz, 1st order, no problem.

The system is in a room that measures around 80m² with a 3m-high ceiling; in this size room, playing the system loud deos not distress the driver when filtered as described, and there is no evidence of honk at the lower end (the fundamentals channel in my case consists of an S2 into a 180 Hz horn). I should add that this channel is connected to the 8 Ohm taps, while all other channels are all connected to the 16 Ohm taps; the fundamentals channel is hence somewhat attenuated, but not a lot (the 180Hz horn is naturally louder).

OK, if it so then my 550-600Hz limitation is not the limitation of S2 driver but my 250Hz horn. This BTW expanse what we have such a differences in assessment of leaking he the S2’s back chamber. (It was somewhere in past). In my case it let it the driver to go 50Hz harder (with some other issues arriving), in your case it was not good as you have a larger hors and there was so “room” for the driver to go down naturally. As I told before: the decision to go for 180Hz was very good on your part and now you are benefited. What is interning is that even in context of my 250Hz horn I do pick some benefits of S3: like higher dynamics at lower region. What would be VERY interning is to run S2 and S3 in 150Hz horn and to see if it possible to load them down to 350-400Hz. I have seen as S2 go apart at 450Hz in open air as the diaphragm-pressing plate is not good in S2. With S2 the diaphragm-pressing plate looks much better and it decoupled from the back of the driver – so I think the S3 will go lover, with no mechanical stress.

 jessie.dazzle wrote:
That is to say, I am for the moment, allowing it to produce a full two octaves, as do all other channels of this system. The pair of drivers is now electronically filtered to work between 450 and 2000 Hz, 1st order (a 18µF cap followed by a 1.5mH coil).

Well, it is very legitimate was to do the things. I see a few moments with increase of the low-path up to 2kHz I will outline below.

1)    The Fundamentals Channel at 2kHz with first order pass too much directional HF. Since the 180Hz  is relatively large (twice larger then 250Hz for instance) then the Fundamentals Channel axis will be higher and consequentially the mid lime of the system will be risen at 2kHz much more then at 1kHz. I personally would recommend of lower upper knee crossover point if you drop the lower knee crossover point, but it is only in the case if the minimum integration distance is important. With 80m² room I doubt that it is critical for you.

2)    If the upper knee of your Fundamentals Channel is at 2kHz hen you might not use 450Hz for MF Channel but go for 700-800Hz. This would add some HF extension to your MF channel and will make them MF less beamy.

3)    The biggest this that I see is the flatness of Vitavox drivers over the 1250Hz. Running the driver flat you will have let say  109dB at 500hz and 2kHz but you will have 113dB at 1250Hz. How do you deal with it? Using impedance compensators? Any other means?

The Cat
"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
 Posted Date All replies in the thread
  5-23-06   Adding one more spherical to Macondo.   (5-23-06)..Romy the Cat
  5-25-06   A loss of axial symmetry   (5-25-06)..drdna
  5-25-06   GOTO: am I a hypocrite?   (5-25-06)..Romy the Cat
  5-25-06   The axial symmetry at 750Hz?   (5-25-06)..Romy the Cat
  5-25-06   Re: GOTO   (5-25-06)..slowmotion
  5-25-06   Back to the imaging of the fifth wheel.   (5-25-06)..Romy the Cat
  5-25-06   Re: Adding one more spherical to Macondo.   (5-25-06)..Wojtek
  5-25-06   The fundamentals channel: the first blood   (5-25-06)..Romy the Cat
  5-26-06   Stacking the horns: bad idea   (5-26-06)..Romy the Cat
  5-26-06   Some examples with Fundamentals Channel   (5-26-06)..Romy the Cat
  5-27-06   The S2 “fundamentals channel” – first success!   (5-27-06)..Romy the Cat
  5-30-06   Another example of use of a Fundamentals Channel.   (5-30-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-9-06   The “Fundamentals Channel” horns are here...   (8-9-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-11-06   "Pile O' Horns"   (8-11-06)..NBC
  8-11-06   Re: "Pile O' Horns"   (8-11-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-11-06   Horn mouth termination   (8-11-06)..NBC
  8-12-06   Bad "choked" mouth termination.   (8-12-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-12-06   Re: Adding one to Macondo: Beautifully wasted Saturday!   (8-12-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-13-06   New “fundamental channel”: juts pictures.   (8-13-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-14-06   The “Fundamental channel” - the first blood.   (8-14-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-14-06   Re: The “Fundamental channel” - potential mechanical HF filter   (8-14-06)..cv
  8-14-06   Re: The “Fundamental channel” - potential mechanical HF filter   (8-14-06)..NBC
  8-14-06   The new channel, phase plug and the objectives   (8-14-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-14-06   I love, I love, I love it!   (8-14-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-15-06   The new channel: first disappointment.   (8-15-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-18-06   More mysteries and THE Honk.   (8-18-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-18-06   Re: More mysteries - bizarre crossover effects   (8-18-06)..cv
  8-18-06   No mysteries in there but still the bizarre crossover effect...   (8-18-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-18-06   The new channel! Yes! I got it!!!   (8-18-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-20-06   Re: 2nd Order filter   (8-20-06)..guy sergeant
  8-20-06   Yes, in my case 2nd Order.   (8-20-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-20-06   The “fundamental channel”: the final tune.   (8-20-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-20-06   Re: Honk that Horn?   (8-20-06)..hagtech
  8-20-06   The ordinary honk of the bad horns owners.   (8-20-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-23-06   The “fundamental channel”: What a beauty!!!   (8-23-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-26-06   Some thoughts about my New Macondo's Absolute Tone   (8-26-06)..Romy the Cat
  8-27-06   Re: Some thoughts about my New Macondo   (8-27-06)..NBC
  7-28-07   "Absolute tone" - I was missing that Sound   (7-28-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-7-07   The Fundamentals Channel around S2 is taken further.   (8-7-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-10-07   Redesign the Vitavox S2 back chamber’s cover.   (8-10-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-10-07   Vent or Augment?   (8-10-07)..jessie.dazzle
  8-10-07   The chamber pressure leaking.   (8-10-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-10-07   A range of spacers?   (8-10-07)..Paul S
  8-10-07   A microscopic pneumatic valve? The field-coil… diaphragm damping?   (8-10-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-10-07   Control that leak!   (8-10-07)..jessie.dazzle
  8-10-07   control that leak! Part II   (8-10-07)..jessie.dazzle
  8-10-07   The leaked S2, one step forward & two back   (8-10-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-10-07   0 - 1 SCFM at 50 PSI?   (8-10-07)..Paul S
  8-11-07   Controlling my own leak!   (8-11-07)..jessie.dazzle
  8-11-07   The Bermuda Triangle rediscovered?   (8-11-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-12-07   Slowly rolling back…   (8-12-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-12-07   Back to Bermuda...   (8-12-07)..jessie.dazzle
  8-12-07   Who cares what Vitavox did?!   (8-12-07)..Romy the Cat
  8-12-07   297.875Hz ; The magic number?   (8-12-07)..jessie.dazzle
  8-12-07   The Vitavox S2 back chamber stuffing.   (8-12-07)..Romy the Cat
  9-27-07   Crossing in the middle   (9-27-07)..jessie.dazzle
  9-28-07   I migh be the phase "clicking"....   (9-28-07)..Romy the Cat
  9-28-07   Further observations   (9-28-07)..jessie.dazzle
  9-28-07   "I will try to take some measurements soon"...   (9-28-07)..Romy the Cat
  9-28-07   Correction & Vertical shift   (9-28-07)..jessie.dazzle
  9-28-07   Three mid channels crossovering - playing in the middle.   (9-28-07)..Romy the Cat
  1-13-08   The 6-ch Milq: Fundamentals vs. Injection Channels.   (1-13-08)..Romy the Cat
  6-10-08   How JBL is trying to do my “fundamentals channel”.   (6-10-08)..Romy the Cat
  6-20-08   250Hz tractrix upper range..?   (6-20-08)..NBC
  6-21-08   This is a universal crossover rule   (6-21-08)..Romy the Cat
  6-22-08   Specifically...   (6-22-08)..NBC
  10-28-08   The Fundamental Chanel gets a new driver.   (10-28-08)..Romy the Cat
  10-29-08   S2 : How low can you go ?   (10-29-08)..jessie.dazzle
  10-29-08   The low-path knee of Fundamentals Channel.   (10-29-08)..Romy the Cat
  10-29-08   Yep, I went for it. It is S3 now.   (10-29-08)..Romy the Cat
  10-30-08   Correction upon further inspection of the Black Hole   (10-30-08)..Romy the Cat
  10-30-08   Fundamental evolution   (10-30-08)..jessie.dazzle
  10-30-08   Channels, drivers design and some RTA rant.   (10-30-08)..Romy the Cat
  10-30-08   MF ramblings &&&   (10-30-08)..jessie.dazzle
  6-10-09   New options for Fundamentals channels.   (6-10-09)..Romy the Cat
  6-11-09   Efficiency?   (6-11-09)..Paul S
  6-28-09   The new life of the Fundamentals Channel.   (6-28-09)..Romy the Cat
  3-16-10   Macondo’s alternation of Fundamentals Channel.   (3-16-10)..Romy the Cat
  9-27-10   New Fundamental Channel.   (9-27-10)..Romy the Cat
  9-28-10   Option   (9-28-10)..Dominik
  9-28-10   Stereolab   (9-28-10)..el`Ol
  9-28-10   Revisiting the fundamentals   (9-28-10)..jessie.dazzle
  9-28-10   Macondo with wings and wide Fundamentals …   (9-28-10)..Romy the Cat
  9-28-10   Multicellular Horns   (9-28-10)..Dominik
  9-28-10   15 cell vs.18 cell   (9-28-10)..Romy the Cat
  9-28-10   Where to cross MF & theory on depiction of depth   (9-28-10)..jessie.dazzle
  9-28-10   The thoughts salad.   (9-28-10)..Romy the Cat
  9-28-10   Depth in stereo & the Flat Earth Society   (9-28-10)..jessie.dazzle
  12-13-10   Fundamental Channel, what a power!!!   (12-13-10)..Romy the Cat
  3-31-11   S3 as a low MF driver   (3-31-11)..gordan
  3-31-11   Depending on your amplification   (3-31-11)..Romy the Cat
  4-1-11   S3 and class A amps   (4-1-11)..gordan
  4-2-11   It is about magnet and SS type.   (4-2-11)..Romy the Cat

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