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10-22-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 309
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 81
Post ID: 25667
Reply to: 25666
Yes and no...
 Wojtek wrote:
people who are not exposed to a  possibilities of certain (SOTA) sound reproduction level  have NO IDEA what's actually achievable. To have a luxury of choosing five SOTA Trumpets from the masters is very nice indeed but assume that you're only able to get DDR quality tin crap trumpet made in Soviet republic and have no exposure whatsoever? Where that "inspiration' inside of you takes you ? This is reality of an average audio crowd. They are not so moronic or deaf actually. 


Funny enough, the west block orchestras did not make „better“ music than the east, in spite of „better“ instruments. The reason is clear - the musician makes the music, even the „lesser“ instruments are still „good enough“ in the parameters that count. I believe that this is also true for playback. We do not need the „best“ hardware for the „best playback“. The hardware has to be „good enough“ and in the hands of someone who makes it sing.

If we start to analyse the finest playbacks, what do we learn? Higher distortion in SET? uneven polar response? Inconvenient to use? Ugly?I think not. I think that we learn that there is too much that we do not understand and that technical argumentation from audiophiles has NOTHING to do with Sound. That is the problem with this thread - more hardware than common sense.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
10-22-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 220
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 82
Post ID: 25668
Reply to: 25661
Also there is much room
 rowuk wrote:

In live music, we have intermodulation. Two trumpets or a trumpet and oboe playing together create sum and difference tones that change depending on pitch interval for instance. For music in major keys, this intermodulation is additive - for music in minor keys, it is destructive. Bruckner used this to great advantage for instance. This effect is never as present in playback as in live music. This is because the intermodulation requires LF response to 1 Hz as well as integration of the highest frequencies.
Low frequency response is hugely different between audio events in a „smaller“ fixed space and „larger“ spaces. In a typical living room with the doors or inside an automobile, we have a pressure chamber. Our bodies react differently to this LF - a pressure chamber is impossible to musically integrate!
if romy says there is information between 20hz and 30hz and he goes for sealed box bass topology because he listen to classic music but in persian classic music and some other type of music we do not need to have clear bass under 40hz .
i do not want discuss about playback limits because it exists and we can not fight it.
I agree we have many limits in sound reproduction but i think there also a large space to work in audio. i believe we have large sonic difference between those stereophile recommended carp hardware and what we hear in good hardware. listen to CEC TL0 (in a good setup) and you will be surprise how digital could sound. listen to pure power 3000+ and you can not believe how your system could sound when the Pure Power is there. those hardware directly affect the musicality and i remember when we tested good digital cable vs bad digital it was similar to listening to properly tuned instrument and non tuned instrument.  i believe many hardwares in market destroy the musicality (like that digital cable) and you can not listen to those hardware for long priode of time. somtimes the hardware it is not about good vs better , it is about bad vs good.

I have a question, did you heard living voice roon in 2014 munich high end show ?
10-22-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 220
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 83
Post ID: 25669
Reply to: 25664
Beauty
 rowuk wrote:
Hi Amir,I have many trumpets, some for early music, some for historical playing, some for jazz, some for modern symphony playing. One thing that I teach my students is that the instrument must never be an excuse. We can play stylistically correct with many different trumpets. I choose the instruments because of their „inspiration“ inside me, for their palette of colors. This has nothing to do with an audio event.


it is true , I remember my dulcimer teacher (for 3 years i was player but i did not continue playing) told me a professional player does not need good instrument and he could play musically with/without good instrument and i believe it but we see many professional players like to have better instrument and we can not ignore it. now we back to the same question of Audio vs Music. they are separate but not 100% isolated . i had a book about beauty philosophy (Babak Ahmadi) and i remember there was an discussion about importance of body (maybe the body is not right word i do not know but i hope you undrestand what i mean) and the relation of body vs soul. it is very complex subject and i believe at higher level of perception the importance of sound is less than music. http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=50#50

rouwk  please let me time to answer all of you posts , i am slow in reading and writing
10-22-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 220
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 84
Post ID: 25670
Reply to: 25666
SOTA
 Wojtek wrote:
people who are not exposed to a  possibilities of certain (SOTA) sound reproduction level  have NO IDEA what's actually achievable. 

Wojtek I 100% believe in you but only in right speaker placement and right room acoustics. if you listen to romy playback or those million dollars Living Voice/kondo playback (battery powered) in not optimum speaker place and bad acoustic then you will not surprise . in my idea good hardware is not more than 20% and we need proper speaker placement and proper acoustics to achieve the 100%.
I think most audiophiles never have chance to hear a good Audio playback and 99% of sounds they hear are not good.
10-22-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 309
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 85
Post ID: 25671
Reply to: 25668
LF extension is important
Hi Amir,we must be careful when talking about limits. We need much more than we think. This is because instruments interact. One instrument playing 440Hz (A) and another playing 465Hz (Bb) create a difference tone of 25Hz. Depending on the intensity and quality of the tone, the beats are very audible. This is also information that our brain does not substitute when playback is LF deficient. A lot of the concert hall room resonances are also LF, so our sense of space is directly affected. This is one of the reasons that a sharp lower knee is a bad thing for the ULF driver.

I have no reason to go to audio shows. The last one is certainly 20 years ago in Frankfurt near my home. I only went because a friend was exhibiting. I get to hear a fair amount of high price audio at colleagues homes. Some are interested in opinions, others only talk about their philosophy, then turn the volume up...


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
10-22-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 171
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 86
Post ID: 25672
Reply to: 25667
Canned meat
 rowuk wrote:
 Wojtek wrote:
people who are not exposed to a  possibilities of certain (SOTA) sound reproduction level  have NO IDEA what's actually achievable. To have a luxury of choosing five SOTA Trumpets from the masters is very nice indeed but assume that you're only able to get DDR quality tin crap trumpet made in Soviet republic and have no exposure whatsoever? Where that "inspiration' inside of you takes you ? This is reality of an average audio crowd. They are not so moronic or deaf actually. 


Funny enough, the west block orchestras did not make „better“ music than the east, in spite of „better“ instruments. The reason is clear - the musician makes the music, even the „lesser“ instruments are still „good enough“ in the parameters that count. I believe that this is also true for playback. We do not need the „best“ hardware for the „best playback“. The hardware has to be „good enough“ and in the hands of someone who makes it sing.

If we start to analyse the finest playbacks, what do we learn? Higher distortion in SET? uneven polar response? Inconvenient to use? Ugly?I think not. I think that we learn that there is too much that we do not understand and that technical argumentation from audiophiles has NOTHING to do with Sound. That is the problem with this thread - more hardware than common sense.

I'm not in disagreement with you at any level actually. I do believe though that the west bloc orchestras made better music, were more principled and disciplined and certainly on average made a better sound and better recordings. While referring to SOTA quality playback I meant evolved systems not the regular collection of high end A rated  components. At some point technicalities have to take a place otherwise it will all descend to a blank canvas with an "artists " signature in the corner and empty attempt to create philosophy justifying $100k price. It is a "GoodSoundclub " after all and there should be a place for a  hardware discussion . What motivates a guy to build a copy of Roman's system? His inner feeling or simply a herd driven desire for something better,not motivated by personal development but mostly by flowery prose of the site owner promising that the canned food recorded music really in essence is could be equally stimulating to real event. All  your ideas and actions related to playback , noble as they can be will eventually come down to bringing home another box. I absolutely believe that sensible person can have a very good system made of simple components. But without some knowledge of what's out there you're stuck with your ideas. I'm not that much interested in Amir's journey and his motivations but they are not that different than convoluted attempts of other posters. And I fully agree with Amir that people take Romy's and other articulate  "thinkers"audio solutions and apply it in the "copy & paste" manner with often comical results . Worse , against their inner feelings they will defend those solutions as the right ones. 
I didn't hear personally any "finest playback" in existence if it comes to classical repertoire. I heard a decent horn based pop&rock &jazz setups , spectacular in a sense . They also were spectacularly bad with Classical . 
10-23-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 220
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 87
Post ID: 25673
Reply to: 25672
Beat
rowuk     
Do you speak about beat when you use “intermodulation” ?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(acoustics)
I am reading about it 
10-23-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 220
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 88
Post ID: 25674
Reply to: 25661
Continue
 rowuk wrote:
Amir,
In live music, we have intermodulation. Two trumpets or a trumpet and oboe playing together create sum and difference tones that change depending on pitch interval for instance. For music in major keys, this intermodulation is additive - for music in minor keys, it is destructive. Bruckner used this to great advantage for instance. This effect is never as present in playback as in live music. This is because the intermodulation requires LF response to 1 Hz as well as integration of the highest frequencies.
Low frequency response is hugely different between audio events in a „smaller“ fixed space and „larger“ spaces. In a typical living room with the doors or inside an automobile, we have a pressure chamber. Our bodies react differently to this LF - a pressure chamber is impossible to musically integrate!

I have no thing to say about bass extension to 1Hz . I hope romy share his idea about this subject .


 rowuk wrote:
Tone: live music has „Tone“. The various octaves have a sense of pitch and softness and articulation all at the same time. Audio playback very seldom can unite these factors.There are hundreds of further differences. You seem to want to argue, but never provide details.
I will not talk about synthesized tone from electronic or heavily DSPed music. Here there is no „reference“ tone (well except compared to the live PA sound...) and more (LF/HF/transients) is simply only more - not better or worse.

I think it will help our discussion if we had common hardware experience.for example if you come to iran and listen to my system or you listen to Living voice horn/kondo in UK .can i ask you what is your playback?


 rowuk wrote:

Proper playback assumes that we understand the „Real“ geometry, that we understand articulation as it applies to voices and instruments. Only then does transient behavior make sense. It also assumes that we are familiar with Sound in space. Does the space fit the music, or is it too large or too small. Are voices plausible, not etched in space. LF and HF extension are optional when listening. Our brain can insert LF proxy information. At a live classical concert, none of the better seats has response over 15-16K and no one is bothered.
Audio recreation assumes experience, not „smarts“. Knowledge in itself is useless. The practical application towards musical goals is a very big subject. Our path gets more valid the more questions that we ask - not the more answers that we believe to have.

I think i can not undrestand your text because of my poor english.
I guess you think the listener should listen to the live music and he should judge the hardware by his knowledge about live music . am i right?

 rowuk wrote:

Funny enough, the west block orchestras did not make „better“ music than the east, in spite of „better“ instruments. The reason is clear - the musician makes the music, even the „lesser“ instruments are still „good enough“ in the parameters that count. I believe that this is also true for playback. We do not need the „best“ hardware for the „best playback“. The hardware has to be „good enough“ and in the hands of someone who makes it sing.

If we start to analyse the finest playbacks, what do we learn? Higher distortion in SET? uneven polar response? Inconvenient to use? Ugly?I think not. I think that we learn that there is too much that we do not understand and that technical argumentation from audiophiles has NOTHING to do with Sound. That is the problem with this thread - more hardware than common sense.

yes , hardware should be good enough but over 90% of hardware in this market are not good enough.the hardware discussion is not about "good vs best" and mostly it is about "bad vs good". bad hardware kill the musicality and very very few components are designed properly.you can check the stereophile amplifier measurement page and between 100 amplifiers you find only 3 amplifier with low feedback design and over 97% of amplifiers use high negative feedback.


10-26-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 309
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 89
Post ID: 25676
Reply to: 25674
Bad hardware does not kill musicality, ignorance does
Amir,there is simply too much with your posting that I disagree with. Yes, knowledge and experience with live music is a powerful tool when thinking about musical goals for playback - even when considering that they are very much different events.Musicality has NOTHING to do with hardware and everything to do with the performance. A musical message can be adequately conveyed with a Bose wave radio or cheap car system. Musicality is not a feature of a sound system in my world. It is the soul of the performer.
If we are talking about proper playback, I think we need terms that more closely describe what is happening. The audiophool speak is useless when defining goals. Distortion of geometry (placement of acoustic events), distortion of space (the physical size of the instruments and the distance between them), distortion of articulation (the characteristics that make instruments speak - related to transient behaviour and color). Distortion of pitch (when notes are in tune but sound like they are not) is a very big issue for me. Many audiophile systems have a sense of being high on the pitch. Strings need air, trumpets „brassiness“. Voices need „substance“. Proper playback can be soft and aggressive at the same time. An orchestra can create a billowy cloud and have sparks fly from the wind section. All of the factors mentioned are needed to avoid these unmusical distortions.
I do not think that feedback is a problem or that eliminating feedback is a general solution. I use single ended pentodes (connected as pentodes) with Schade type feedback for my amplifiers (RH 307A Super and multiple RH 84). The issue is how the amplifier and speaker work together.  My experiments with pure feedbackless SET amplifiers was not as gratifying (in respect to the distortions mentioned above).
Robin


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
10-26-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,217
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 90
Post ID: 25677
Reply to: 25676
How We Get From Here to There
So many "parts" to a particular hi-fi system, and not just the gear, and so many reasons why a given system turns out the way it does. Didn't Amir say he doesn't listen to a lot of classical music? I was pretty happy with tubes for quite a while, including SETs, when I listened mostly to jazz and I accepted that I couldn't get my system to convey much of the classical catalog. Once I started to develop the Lamm ML2s, however, things changed for me. I got into recorded classic music in a big way and I never backtracked. Again, the Lamm ML2s are SETs that also use global feedback, and I wonder if there are better "full range" SET amps available for a good deal of classical fare. If there is a "problem" with SETs as a genre it's that they want/need easy loads, and this is the reason for DSET with horns, to make it as easy on each output leg as possible. But IMO there are "alternatives". Regardless of what others say, I know from experience that there are better ways to drive big, conventional type drivers than typical SET, especially no-feedback SET, and especially if one wants to explore "big" classical works. On the other hand, if one listens mostly to "easy" music, then no need to go crazy trying for the "ultimate system" in the first place, unless it's the sound itself one listens to, rather than the music, and in that case one might even be happiest simply playing around with different gear as an end in itself.  In that case, more power to you, but you are wasting your time on this forum.

By the way, Robin, when I referred to "Furtwangler's incomparable war time Beethoven 7" in my Neumann mic post a while back I of course meant his 9th. You mention how great performances "trump" the gear, or even the recording itself, and here's an excellent case in point. So very true, and what a shame so many people miss so much while listening to the sound itself and/or the gear. C'est la Guerre. There have been several posts over the years opining in various ways that a well chosen table radio is better for listening to Music than a "pretentious" hi-fi system. Generally speaking, I agree.


Paul S
10-27-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 309
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 91
Post ID: 25679
Reply to: 25677
Complex systems make good playback harder
 Paul S wrote:
.......By the way, Robin, when I referred to "Furtwangler's incomparable war time Beethoven 7" in my Neumann mic post a while back I of course meant his 9th. You mention how great performances "trump" the gear, or even the recording itself, and here's an excellent case in point. So very true, and what a shame so many people miss so much while listening to the sound itself and/or the gear. C'est la Guerre. There have been several posts over the years opining in various ways that a well chosen table radio is better for listening to Music than a "pretentious" hi-fi system. Generally speaking, I agree.
Paul S

Perhaps we could create a postulate that with increasing system complexity, it gets harder to get good sound - not easier.
Actually, Furtwänglers Beethoven 7 from 1943 is VERY, VERY good. Some reviewer said something like “Two sayings come to mind when one thinks of the Beethoven Seventh: Wagner described it as the 'Apotheosis of the Dance' whereas Weber declared that his fellow composer was nuthouse-bound on the evidence of the first movement.”. This is what I hear in that 7th.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
10-27-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 220
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 92
Post ID: 25680
Reply to: 25676
Siemens SL45 vs NAD Dynaudio
 rowuk wrote:
Amir,
In live music, we have intermodulation. Two trumpets or a trumpet and oboe playing together create sum and difference tones that change depending on pitch interval for instance. For music in major keys, this intermodulation is additive - for music in minor keys, it is destructive. Bruckner used this to great advantage for instance. This effect is never as present in playback as in live music. This is because the intermodulation requires LF response to 1 Hz as well as integration of the highest frequencies.
Low frequency response is hugely different between audio events in a „smaller“ fixed space and „larger“ spaces. In a typical living room with the doors or inside an automobile, we have a pressure chamber. Our bodies react differently to this LF - a pressure chamber is impossible to musically integrate!

please check here , Romy has an answer 
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=18375#18375



 rowuk wrote:
Yes, knowledge and experience with live music is a powerful tool when thinking about musical goals for playback - even when considering that they are very much different events.
   I do not want to disagree you but i think this is not a fix rule because i know a professional pianist, he has PHD in sound engineering and he does setup of hall sound systems and he works in mastering studio and he reviews pro audio hardware. he is professional musician and a professional photographer. i know his ideas about sound and he think the best sound come from those 0.000001% THD systems.if you ask him what is the best DAC then he will tell you weiss is best. if you ask him what is the best amplifier then he will tell you Spectral Audio is the best.i also know two other musicians that their audio result is not different to other audiophools. you disagree me about Audio IQ but I think if roomy IQ was not high then we had not goodsoundclub. advancing audio needs IQ because most of listeners and musicians are familiar with live music and they both have enough experience but only higher IQ mans do audio better. read herehttp://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=18380#18380 
 rowuk wrote:
Musicality has NOTHING to do with hardware and everything to do with the performance. A musical message can be adequately conveyed with a Bose wave radio or cheap car system. Musicality is not a feature of a sound system in my world. It is the soul of the performer.
If we are talking about proper playback, I think we need terms that more closely describe what is happening. The audiophool speak is useless when defining goals. Distortion of geometry (placement of acoustic events), distortion of space (the physical size of the instruments and the distance between them), distortion of articulation (the characteristics that make instruments speak - related to transient behaviour and color). Distortion of pitch (when notes are in tune but sound like they are not) is a very big issue for me. Many audiophile systems have a sense of being high on the pitch. Strings need air, trumpets „brassiness“. Voices need „substance“. Proper playback can be soft and aggressive at the same time. An orchestra can create a billowy cloud and have sparks fly from the wind section. All of the factors mentioned are needed to avoid these unmusical distortions.
I do not think that feedback is a problem or that eliminating feedback is a general solution. I use single ended pentodes (connected as pentodes) with Schade type feedback for my amplifiers (RH 307A Super and multiple RH 84). The issue is how the amplifier and speaker work together.  My experiments with pure feedbackless SET amplifiers was not as gratifying (in respect to the distortions mentioned above).
Robin

for defining proper playback I will write about my idea about good sound with writing about harmonic dynamic and .... be sure you will not be upset if you come to iran and listen to my system.
just let me share my first audio system experience.i really believe bad audio systems make listener sad. i had NAD cdplayer NAD amplifier and 86db Dynaudio speaker. my cell phone Siemens SL45 had a better sound than my audio system and i listened more to Siemens mp3 player. i think the audio industry destroyed audio.
this is your post about your amplifier 5 years ago :   
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=20846#20846       

 rowuk wrote:
I ran across this site quite a while ago http://rh-amps.blogspot.de and decided to have a go at building one of Alexs amps. The idea of using a real pentode the way it was originally designed for appealed to me. 
I had a chance to get some 307A tubes at a decent price and built the 307A Super. http://rh-amps.blogspot.de/2013_09_01_archive.html
It is safe to say that I am VERY happy. I am listening to more complete works and almost never zap anymore. The amp has plenty of power and that something special that makes you sit down and listen. The sense of "melody" is very good even at the lower range of the contrabass. Since the amplifiers are done, I have identified some other areas in my playback that need attention.
More on the process that brought me to this decision and what it now "after the fact" has fulfilled in upcoming posts.

it means some hardware may not fix you on chair



 rowuk wrote:
I have tried the 307A in triode connection in the "standard" no feedback moron 12Axx (in my case 12 AT7) easy configuration with a coupling capacitor and it was "nice". Critical listening was almost impossible, I kept zapping around to find more "impressive" cuts. With Alex Kitics RH concept I have more than enough power (+7Watts?), and very interesting "Sound". Good recordings have a certain "explosiveness" without the etched imaging or mush of the "easy triode". There seems to be some "intelligence" depending on how "thick" the instrumentalist plays. The most important aspect is that I am motivated to keep listening and discovering things not through more "detail", rather by being able to follow the musicians line.
The zeners seem to be one of the key factors to the Sound. I tried a resistor, but the entire presentation changed in the direction of "soft". I can compare this to different trumpets that I own. The RH amp has more core and meat, the triode was big and fluffy but was more like a 3d animation than the space that I have when I am on stage. I just turn on the amp. wait about 5 minutes and listen.
In the past years I have had EL34 and 84s in various configs, a PP config the longest with relatively inefficient speakers. I changed to a 4 way system with horns a couple of years ago and there was a fairly long list of things that I thought could be better that I thought were related to the amplifier - This is the first major step.
Alex Kitic is a very vociferous designer, very convinced about what he is doing - He is very responsive to questions by mail and this venture to get a reference "melody range" for myself has been very good in terms of the sonic results and in getting some independent background behind what I am doing.
It is worth looking through his website. I find plenty of inspiration and because he sells nothing and "gives away" his ideas, there is a credibility that is hard to find anywhere else - except here.......
10-27-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
ArmAlex
Iran
Posts 99
Joined on 02-14-2009

Post #: 93
Post ID: 25681
Reply to: 25676
Orchestra effect
 rowuk wrote:
An orchestra can create a billowy cloud and have sparks fly from the wind section.
Robin
Exactly! And you are floating in that sheer volume of music. Like a hovercraft lifted in air by air pressure.
10-27-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,655
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 94
Post ID: 25682
Reply to: 25680
Amir, can we stand back a bit....
 Amir wrote:
i think the audio industry destroyed audio.
Amir, 

yes it is very much true but not in the context you think it is true. The main force of audio industry distraction of audio was not introduction of bad equipment or faulty audio producing techniques but seeding in the audio consumer faulty expectation regarding the entire meaning of “better” audio. As the resole we have generation or audio consumers who are kind of clueless what they do in audio and the industry juts keep furnishing irrelevant products and means of audio production to these aimless people. Frankly speaking most of you thinking about audio that you expressed at this site is just an evidence of audio aimlessness, and to a degree I feel that you are very much a victim of the consumerism of the audio industry that you are trying to criticize.  I’m might be getting you wrong, I admit that I do not read your posts attentively  but from the few that I did read I feel your criticism about audio industry is no different than a blind person criticize people who use canes or waking dogs.  
 
If you care about my view than I would recommend you to take time out of internet audio and exchanging your idea with others about audio. This is very much dead end. Focus of specific segment of music you are interested. It might be a period, a composer of even one specific work. Then learns whatever you might about this work, about the history and circumstances, get 100s different recommended interpretations of the work. Learn the world to the point that you can play it in your head. Think about this work, connect it to everything you know about life and your other experiences. Then, only then begin to listen this selected work on you playback and try to answers to yourself a question if your playback is something that helps you or prevents you to get the deeper meaning of the work or a specific interpretations of the work. If you feel that your playback does not advance you in getting this sepsis work and do not offer to you any new opportunities in your ethical or spirituals development then trash your playbacks and start collecting stamp. If you feel that your playback does something to you but not in the direction where you feel you would like to go culturally of musical then start to work on your playback. Then, only then you can ask others what/how to do with your playback but I promise you then you will be asking very different questions…  
 
Until then I do not think whatever you write manes any sense, at least to me. I have plenty of 3 years old in my life to hear their conclusions about world and I do not need to read about the same conclusions from my audio site that reportedly should be about “advanced audio and evolved music reproduction techniques”


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
10-27-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 309
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 95
Post ID: 25683
Reply to: 25680
I am done posting in or reading this thread
Amir, you are not listening or trying to understand. You are doing the same things that Stereophile/Audiogon/TAS audiophiles are doing - posting about things that you are not even trying to understand - and copy pasting other peoples ideas without understanding what they mean. I thought that I would just play the game for a while - unfortunately you are just as weak now as with your first post in this thread.
 Amir wrote:
please check here , Romy has an answer 
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=18375#18375

Romy had no answer - but he does have a different view that he can very well define. If you read the whole thread and understand what we are saying, you will realize that both sides are reality viewed from a different point of view.
 Amir wrote:
 
I do not want to disagree you but i think this is not a fix rule because i know a professional pianist, he has PHD in sound engineering and he does setup of hall sound systems and he works in mastering studio and he reviews pro audio hardware. he is professional musician and a professional photographer. i know his ideas about sound and he think the best sound come from those 0.000001% THD systems.if you ask him what is the best DAC then he will tell you weiss is best. if you ask him what is the best amplifier then he will tell you Spectral Audio is the best.i also know two other musicians that their audio result is not different to other audiophools. you disagree me about Audio IQ but I think if roomy IQ was not high then we had not goodsoundclub. advancing audio needs IQ because most of listeners and musicians are familiar with live music and they both have enough experience but only higher IQ mans do audio better. read herehttp://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=18380#18380 

Amir, why do you refer to someone that you do not understand (the pianist)? Why do refer to Romy that you also do not understand the context of his posting? Your pianist friend may just get great performance of the Weiss DAC and his .000000001 distortion amplifier. If you could understand his viewpoint, he may be closer to the "musical" truth in spite of your condescending opinion of his hardware. As you do not understand what he is talking about, your words have no meaning to me.
 Amir wrote:

for defining proper playback I will write about my idea about good sound with writing about harmonic dynamic and .... be sure you will not be upset if you come to iran and listen to my system.
just let me share my first audio system experience.i really believe bad audio systems make listener sad. i had NAD cdplayer NAD amplifier and 86db Dynaudio speaker. my cell phone Siemens SL45 had a better sound than my audio system and i listened more to Siemens mp3 player. i think the audio industry destroyed audio.
this is your post about your amplifier 5 years ago :   
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=20846#20846    

Actually, I feel that it would be best if you just stopped posting for a while and spent some time thinking about everything that has been written.
 Amir wrote:
it means some hardware may not fix you on chair

It is not the job to fix me in the chair. I can be off axis and have a great listen too - albeit with a different "Sound". Sometimes I like listening from another room with the stereo turned up. Romy has written also about this.

By the way, I read the forum posts but Romys site feature of posting Music News is very unique and attracts my attention very seriously.


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
10-28-2019 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 220
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 96
Post ID: 25686
Reply to: 25682
Listen to my audio playback
 Romy the Cat wrote:

Amir,  Frankly speaking most of you thinking about audio that you expressed at this site is just an evidence of audio aimlessness, and to a degree I feel that you are very much a victim of the consumerism of the audio industry that you are trying to criticize.  I’m might be getting you wrong, I admit that I do not read your posts attentively  but from the few that I did read I feel your criticism about audio industry is no different than a blind person criticize people who use canes or waking dogs.  

Romy
I regard your audio ideas and i find them very useful to me though i do not listen to classic music. I think your audio ideas or any right audio idea is not limited to just one music type. i mean if you use purepower 3000+ for classic music then we will not get bad result from purepower on other type of music like persian classic music.
it means if there is a right direction (or right hardware) in audio then the music type is not matter. before posting here i had many times (from 2002) to think and listen to different audio hardwares and if I write here because i find some common grounds between your audio result and my audio finding.
if you think i should listen more and do not exchange my ideas in internet then i will stop posting here because i regard your view but i am sure you can not be sure about your judgment (your judgment about my audio thinking) before listening to my audio system.
I believe no body could have a good sound with blind eyes or limited experience.
If you had any interest to have a trip to iran then i will be happy to be your host. Thank you
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