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  »  New  Some Horns propaganda..  Old paper direct-radiation tweeters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  90536  07-04-2004
  »  New  Speakers: a hi-fi disaster...  Good writing, T......  Audio Discussions  Forum     22  205684  01-16-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  324330  05-14-2005
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  405157  10-05-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  Serious Coax? Where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  193842  12-11-2005
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  333720  02-19-2006
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  954864  05-23-2006
  »  New  Dream Hi-Eff Speakers for an “inmate”...  Re: An average audio person has no opportunity......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  56619  07-03-2006
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  68978  07-11-2006
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  838973  10-19-2006
  »  New  My subject of envy to audio manufacturers...  It would be fun to have somebody to pay for it…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  28494  02-12-2007
  »  New  German Odeon horns...  How would I play with Odeons…the murky water....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  161003  04-01-2007
  »  New  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar..  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  72036  07-10-2007
  »  New  First Order on Bass channels: Designed for Sound..  Bass from a vented box......  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  135923  07-20-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  674467  07-29-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1555067  08-03-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  389225  09-21-2007
  »  New  Festival “Son & Image” in Montreal..  Well......  Audio Discussions  Forum     17  133862  03-16-2008
  »  New  Explain TAD ET-703 driver to me..  Horns in practice...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  127384  10-16-2008
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  683728  08-09-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  87959  08-30-2009
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Good luck...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  570875  12-13-2007
  »  New  Greek Anima Loudspeakers..  Sealed subs...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     33  255952  11-03-2009
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  146709  08-22-2011
08-14-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,115
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 221
Post ID: 27498
Reply to: 27497
Guys, stay focused.
The subject of this there is “The most promising “best” commercial speaker. Please stay on this subject or withdraw yourself from posting. I do not know what the last few days' posts are about, but I assure you that none of your posts need to be posted here. Please use self-moderation


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-15-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 342
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 222
Post ID: 27499
Reply to: 27498
More activity
Romy,I hope you are fine. 
I check your website every day to see your posts here and I would like this forum be more active.
About this topic I listened to Cessaro in MOC 2024 and decided to listen to Cessaro in Germany.




www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
08-15-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,638
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 223
Post ID: 27500
Reply to: 27499
What's the Best?
Everyone wants to know what’s the best. The next question is, best for what, and it goes on from there. Is it possible to lay out a significant context in a coherent, useable format in an open forum? If you think so, then give it a shot. It does seem worthwhile to me to discuss objectives and place them in context, including tentative conclusions, whereas a dearth of context reduces nominations to name dropping.

Paul S
08-15-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
steverino
Posts 365
Joined on 05-22-2009

Post #: 224
Post ID: 27501
Reply to: 27498
Sadurni
I didn't see any recent post or any post in this thread about the Sadurni horn speakers. Just curious as to what anyone thinks of the latest offerings from them? I realize there was a dedicated thread back in 2011 but interest here seemed to wane about 6 or 7 years ago.
08-16-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 342
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 225
Post ID: 27502
Reply to: 27501
Sadurni
Read here
http://goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=1&postID=16848#16848


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
08-16-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,638
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 226
Post ID: 27503
Reply to: 27502
"White Paper"
Here is the designer talking about his loudspeakers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=sr0ZrvBe2eI&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.enjoythemusic.com%2F&feature=emb_imp_woyt

Somehow my links never become activate when I paste them here...
08-16-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 342
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 227
Post ID: 27504
Reply to: 27500
Good question
 Paul S wrote:
Everyone wants to know what’s the best. The next question is, best for what, and it goes on from there. Is it possible to lay out a significant context in a coherent, useable format in an open forum? If you think so, then give it a shot. It does seem worthwhile to me to discuss objectives and place them in context, including tentative conclusions, whereas a dearth of context reduces nominations to name dropping.

Paul S

I never seen one audio system could play all music types well.I have two category in my mind: one is more “musical/emotional” and another is more “real”.I think TAD drivers and Cessaro omega I are in “real” category and Vitavox S2 driver is in “musical/emotional” category.This two category are not like black and white, it is about which aspect is more prominent.

I think Romy put lots of effort to have both (musical and real) in one system.


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
08-16-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Gargoyle
Posts 69
Joined on 02-01-2015

Post #: 228
Post ID: 27505
Reply to: 27501
The alignment
track is cool on those Sadurni.
I'm making something similar, it is a bit of confirmation that the similar threaded rod that I am using would have reasonable granularity.
08-16-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,115
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 229
Post ID: 27506
Reply to: 27504
You draw your own conclusions....
I never like anything TAD does. They used to have many years ago a very interesting 14-in driver, bass driver but still in this category is there very many good alternatives. Whatever they do has a huge infliction of compression. Back in 2000s I heard is your new installations, included one crazy expensive and I was shocked how but is a handle compression. Top compression drivers are on League. I'm pretty much sure that I will be able to detect presence of those drivers blindly. They have very synthetic tone and I have absolutely no idea but it's coming from. They cannot play unsave, they have numbers suitable for dynamic compression drivers but they sound almost like reborns. And the most important that they have own sense of completely out of this world Sonic signature which is absolutely unique. Pretend you play a string instrument which is so wet and your bowl is saturated with liquid. It might produce correct pitch but anything around the speech is completely alien. I absolutely hate the sound. My memory going back over 20 years ago and I might not remember the tales. My neighbor  Bill had this system with I believe 4001 and couple years ago he got rid of them. You might ask him what was his observations. You cannot blame Cressarro for use TAD drivers, what else they can use? There are no good contemporary compression drivers unless you go to some extreme exotics. They or claims that they modify something. It's my be true and they might find way to make TAD to sound good. My experience with those claims is following. Each single time I was approaching any manufacturer who claims as a success with my device a compression driver I almost asked them the same question: what is your view the problem in the sound this unmodified driver? As many time I asked this question no one was able to say anything sensible or deserving attention. You draw your own conclusions....


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-18-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 342
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 230
Post ID: 27514
Reply to: 27506
Thank you Romy
Romy, Thank you very much for sharing your idea about TAD compression drivers.I like to see your activity here more because actually our audio hobby/enjoyment is not complete without you. 
I do not have any DIY experience with TAD Compression drivers but I think if Ralph properly setup Cessaro in his office then I can have better view about the sound.My experience is about TAD Be coaxial dynamic driver for years with SS amplification. I had some loudspeakers in my room to have better comparison (both dynamics and Tone) with TAD Reference Be midrange, for example I had Wilson Alexandria, Audio Note UK, Living Voice 2way and ...my experience after 2 years shows the Tone hugely changes by amplification, AC quality, speaker position and I think TAD is also very very sensitive to upstream.TAD pattern is also very wide and the side walls should be far away from speakers. in the end I think those Be drivers are dynamic and have neutral tone not synthetic tone. 

in this market we also have Living Voice Vox Olympian horn, one of the few commercial speaker that uses Vitavox S2, My friend has Living Voice in his home and the problem is Living Voice Vox Olympian is not perfect for all types of music, actually Living Voice is better for more simple music. I did not listen to Macondo system so I have no idea about Vitavox S2 in your installation.     

Amir





www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
08-18-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 10,115
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 231
Post ID: 27516
Reply to: 27514
Interesting
 Amir wrote:
I think TAD is also very very sensitive to upstream. TAD pattern is also very wide and the side walls should be far away from speakers. in the end I think those Be drivers are dynamic and have neutral tone not synthetic tone. 

Possible. As with any driver the “truth” is coming from from a person who spend extensive time to on adaptation of a given driver and not from a person who listen a drive in “as is” configuration in context of other people playback. I had 4001 or 4002 back in 2001 when I was looking for an alternative MF to my Vanguard Trio. At that time, I went over many compression drivers. The TAD driver did not even make a dent in my memory. As many times I have heard TAD I always heard the very specific signature that particularly was very auditable on recordings of large upper strings groups and in particularly on the recordings of bad quality. If you listen to the Berlin Philharmonic on DG label from 70-80 you will know what I mean. For some reason, TAD Makes sound as the instruments have nylon strings, it is very much implanted in my memory cannot recognize it immediately. It is possible that somebody who knows those drivers work with them and will be able to get rid of this effect but I never experience TADs with that synthetic quality.

 Amir wrote:
in this market we also have Living Voice Vox Olympian horn, one of the few commercial speaker that uses Vitavox S2, My friend has Living Voice in his home and the problem is Living Voice Vox Olympian is not perfect for all types of music, actually Living Voice is better for more simple music.

It is a very interesting observation. I have very good impressions after listening Living Voice Vox Olympian back in 2013. First of all, I really like the person who owns the company, and he is truly a Master. What I mean is that he uses all components that I intimately know but he created this Olympian his own unique sound and it is not something that I did. This quality of the person to use ordinary elements and components and create with them own distinct sound is a sign of Mastership to me. The second part is very peculiar. There are two distinct moments that I very much remember from listening Olympian. Those two distinct moment are so memorable because when I heard them I clearly recognized then my playback system cannot do it. Both of those distinct moments were on recording of string quartets. I actually do not remember how Olympian sounded on large scale music.  Hi Do Not say it was good or bad I just do not remember, but I remember it was not remarkable and because of this I do not remember. Topologically, my playback should be more advantageous than Olympian because I use properly implemented (!!!) multi amplification with DSETs and line level crossovers, make an amplification to act upon most favorable impedance. If I am not mistaken, the Olympian used a single amplifier, at least for horns. It does not make Macondo better then Olympian, Macondo just uses more advanced, and significantly more complex topology for an application. It would be insanely interesting to hear Olympian with my type multi amplification, only implemented by the Olympian designer.



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
08-19-2024 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Amir
Iran Tehran
Posts 342
Joined on 02-11-2009

Post #: 232
Post ID: 27521
Reply to: 27516
Amplifier Speaker Matching
 Romy the Cat wrote:
 Amir wrote:
I think TAD is also very very sensitive to upstream. TAD pattern is also very wide and the side walls should be far away from speakers. in the end I think those Be drivers are dynamic and have neutral tone not synthetic tone. 

Possible. It is possible that somebody who knows those drivers work with them and will be able to get rid of this effect but I never experience TADs with that synthetic quality.

 Amir wrote:
in this market we also have Living Voice Vox Olympian horn, one of the few commercial speaker that uses Vitavox S2, My friend has Living Voice in his home and the problem is Living Voice Vox Olympian is not perfect for all types of music, actually Living Voice is better for more simple music.

It is a very interesting observation. I have very good impressions after listening Living Voice Vox Olympian back in 2013. First of all, I really like the person who owns the company, and he is truly a Master. What I mean is that he uses all components that I intimately know but he created this Olympian his own unique sound and it is not something that I did. This quality of the person to use ordinary elements and components and create with them own distinct sound is a sign of Mastership to me. The second part is very peculiar. There are two distinct moments that I very much remember from listening Olympian. Those two distinct moment are so memorable because when I heard them I clearly recognized then my playback system cannot do it. Both of those distinct moments were on recording of string quartets. I actually do not remember how Olympian sounded on large scale music.  Hi Do Not say it was good or bad I just do not remember, but I remember it was not remarkable and because of this I do not remember. Topologically, my playback should be more advantageous than Olympian because I use properly implemented (!!!) multi amplification with DSETs and line level crossovers, make an amplification to act upon most favorable impedance. If I am not mistaken, the Olympian used a single amplifier, at least for horns. It does not make Macondo better then Olympian, Macondo just uses more advanced, and significantly more complex topology for an application. It would be insanely interesting to hear Olympian with my type multi amplification, only implemented by the Olympian designer.


I think every driver should match to amplifier if we want to get best sound from that driver.This subject is very interesting to me but It seems very few designers like Delima think about it.
I did not have Living Voice horn in my home but I am sure I will like it if I listen to Vox Olympian in UK.Kevin rarely play massive complex music but duet or quartet are very musical in his setup.
Romy, Thank you for sharing your idea 


www.amiraudio.com, www.hifi.ir
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Some Horns propaganda..  Old paper direct-radiation tweeters...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  90536  07-04-2004
  »  New  Speakers: a hi-fi disaster...  Good writing, T......  Audio Discussions  Forum     22  205684  01-16-2005
  »  New  The “Dead Points of Live Sound”..  Confused...  Playback Listening  Forum     28  324330  05-14-2005
  »  New  About Wilson Audio Loudspeakers..  Nagra HD?...  Audio Discussions  Forum     53  405157  10-05-2005
  »  New  The IDEAL horn system..  Serious Coax? Where?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     27  193842  12-11-2005
  »  New  Magico: Robert Harley’s upperbass mouth...  Surprisingly interesting write up by Federated Mike abo...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     35  333720  02-19-2006
  »  New  Adding one more spherical to Macondo...  It is about magnet and SS type....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     92  954864  05-23-2006
  »  New  Dream Hi-Eff Speakers for an “inmate”...  Re: An average audio person has no opportunity......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     3  56619  07-03-2006
  »  New  Srajan, 6Moons, sex industry and sapphire horns..  Unless the objective is .......  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     4  68978  07-11-2006
  »  New  Tweeter for Vitavox S2. High-sensitively ribbons?..  Correction: Townshend Ribbon and sensitivity....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     64  838973  10-19-2006
  »  New  My subject of envy to audio manufacturers...  It would be fun to have somebody to pay for it…...  Audio Discussions  Forum     2  28494  02-12-2007
  »  New  German Odeon horns...  How would I play with Odeons…the murky water....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  161003  04-01-2007
  »  New  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar..  An Interview With Dr. Bruce Edgar...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     0  72036  07-10-2007
  »  New  First Order on Bass channels: Designed for Sound..  Bass from a vented box......  Audio Discussions  Forum     16  135923  07-20-2007
  »  New  Macondo's Axioms: Horn-loaded acoustic systems..  A link to another thread....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     120  674467  07-29-2007
  »  New  Jessie Dazzle Project..  Will this better to be auditable?...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     172  1555067  08-03-2007
  »  New  A DSET is better then an expensive SET..  DIY Stradivarius...  Audio For Dummies ™  Forum     41  389225  09-21-2007
  »  New  Festival “Son & Image” in Montreal..  Well......  Audio Discussions  Forum     17  133862  03-16-2008
  »  New  Explain TAD ET-703 driver to me..  Horns in practice...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     13  127384  10-16-2008
  »  New  Living Voice Loudspeaker..  A Polish Infomercial from Kevin Scott....  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     80  683728  08-09-2009
  »  New  Engaging the David Haigner’s ideas..  The degree of disagreement correction...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     7  87959  08-30-2009
  »  New  The European Triode Festival’s horns..  Good luck...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     57  570875  12-13-2007
  »  New  Greek Anima Loudspeakers..  Sealed subs...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     33  255952  11-03-2009
  »  New  A new kid in the block: Sadurni Acoustics..  Axpona 2015...  Horn-Loaded Speakers Forum     21  146709  08-22-2011
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