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  »  New  Remedies the Beauty..  Good for you, Jarek...  Playback Listening  Forum     225  80620  10-13-2021
  »  New  Macondo vs Dannoy = Essentialism vs Existentialism..  Romy Wrestles Angel...  Playback Listening  Forum     2  3401  11-14-2021
11-09-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 1
Post ID: 26514
Reply to: 26514
Bermuda Triangles of Audio



"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-14-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Paul S
San Diego, California, USA
Posts 2,417
Joined on 10-12-2006

Post #: 2
Post ID: 26539
Reply to: 26514
Compensatory Elixir?
Romy, you specifically mentioned Shindo, and this is a well-known example of the "Old Parts School" that seems to be able to channel It. Examples I have heard have all been simpler Music via simpler speakers, so I don't know how it works with big symphonies via big speakers, although I don't think this is what these amps were meant for. They offer SET, but the best I've heard from them were their fancier PP amps. "Organic" without being gooey, gummy, or clumsy. Better than my old Leak Point 1, my first amp, used with Altec A7s, and then Advents. Not cheap...

Paul S
11-14-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
rowuk


Germany
Posts 412
Joined on 07-05-2012

Post #: 3
Post ID: 26541
Reply to: 26514
Was there any "IT" in Cetla91?
It does not surprise me that your current setup is "missing" so much. I am positive that if you get 100 pieces of exactly your model of Tannoy, they will ALL sound different.

I do not have a test for this, but feel that point source in this context has benefits that Macondo did not. Sure, humans do not have great resolution in the vertical plane - when we are listening for the normal "stuff", but for many really great recordings, the main microphones WERE point source...

Just trying to think about what is different - 1) Tannoy is worse in frequency response2) Tannoy is worse in tone3) Tannoy is worse in dynamics4) Tannoy is worse in distortion5) Tannoy is point source6) Tannoy does not use optimized crossover7) Tannoy is convenient
In any case, your Cetla setup also was "convenient", used the same amp and I wonder if there was "IT" in the presentation?


Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again.
11-14-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,967
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 26542
Reply to: 26541
Let wait.
*** I am positive that if you get 100 pieces of exactly your model of Tannoy, they will ALL sound different.
 
Very likely, I have 6 drivers and one of them sound as I need, all the rest of them are compromised. They still have the similar characters however but different damages.

*** I do not have a test for this, but feel that point source in this context has benefits that Macondo did not. Sure, humans do not have great resolution in the vertical plane - when we are listening for the normal "stuff", but for many really great recordings, the main microphones WERE point source...
 
I do not feel that I can debate it as I do not feel that point source  or vertical line array are objectives they are just methods. The result is the one the matters. My wife way much prefers Macondo, she has very acute sonic sensitivity from vertical plane and she like the stratification of intermetals sections by different channels. Be she and I hear differently and she is not able to extrapolate narrow minded potentials, I can.

*** Just trying to think about what is different - 1) Tannoy is worse in frequency response2) Tannoy is worse in tone3) Tannoy is worse in dynamics4) Tannoy is worse in distortion5) Tannoy is point source6) Tannoy does not use optimized crossover7) Tannoy is convenient
In any case, your Cetla setup also was "convenient", used the same amp and I wonder if there was "IT" in the presentation? 
Nope, Cetla, did not have any “it” factor at all but I hardly remember that I run Cetla more then 2-3 hours, also the were running only video and the sources in there, all of them crap. Regarding the Dannoy is worse in this or that dimension…. it is complex to debate or to answer. If I will be able to make my Remedios to sound in the same way how I had Dannoy sounding a month ago (and I am planning to make it MUCH better) then I will be having my feeling of own credentials to propose of advocate anything. As this point I have only some hope and ideas the need to be not only tested but materialled. In contrary to most of audio people if I run my mouth only if I have something demonstrable to back it up. At this point I have badly operational prototypes and a few stupid moves that that I have made and that do not advance to anything. Let return to this conversation is 1-2 months when I will have Remidios operational in more or less major-problem-free capacity and then I will be able to gauge  how much worth all the I fetishizes myself.


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
11-16-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Bill
Kensington, NH
Posts 90
Joined on 03-15-2010

Post #: 5
Post ID: 26545
Reply to: 26542
What is different.
Have been playing with the Dannoy’s for four weeks now and they have significantly improved. Using my Trinnov pre-pro to see and adjust the parameters, i can answer Rom'y points.

1. Frequency response: combined with a JL f113 subwoofer crossed over at 80 Hz., they are +/- 1 dB 20+to 20+KHz. Without the subwoofer they have a natural roll off at about 50 Hz. In this cabinet.

2. While I still don't have the tone Romy got with them, it is the best I have heard from my system over the past 40 years.

3.Tannoy is worse in dynamics, but what non-horn speaker can match them for this parameter.

4. I cannot hear any significant distortion using my Trinnov pre-pro with XTZ digital amps. On the other hand. I do not have the tone quality I heard at Romy's. That is probably due to his vfet  amps and digital source.

5. Tannoy is point source compared with my horns, and with the Trinnov's ability to align the 2 tannoy drivers with the jl audio to less that 1 ms., the sound stage is glorious with pinpoint imaging and a wide ,very deep soundstage. 

6.With the Trinnov, the crossover is optimized, although it is only 12 dB. Linkiwitz-Reilly Between the tannoy tweeter and woofer and 24 dB to the subwoofer. 

7. Dannoy is convenient, takes up significantly less space, number of amplifiers, and frequency and time alignment. At my age, this is a great advantage. 

Hopefully my Yamaha B2 amps ordered from Japan will clear customs this time around and I’ll get that jump in amplifier quality.

Right now I’m satisfied with what I have for sound and hope Romy gets to his optimum.Bill
11-17-2021 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
N-set
Gdansk, Poland
Posts 571
Joined on 01-07-2006

Post #: 6
Post ID: 26549
Reply to: 26542
Tannoy carton issues
 Romy the Cat wrote:
*** I am positive that if you get 100 pieces of exactly your model of Tannoy, they will ALL sound different.
 
Very likely, I have 6 drivers and one of them sound as I need, all the rest of them are compromised. They still have the similar characters however but different damages.


FYI: A quote re cones of Tannoys (albeit for 15") I've found here https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50958

"For 15"..
Silvers and Reds with orange dust cap use the same lighter carton and sound alike.

Reds with black dust cap but especially later black dust caps started using heavier carton which became pretty much gold same weight. So reds with blk dustcap are more like a gold than orange dust cap reds. Also often reflected with prices on ebay.

Late Reds with black dust covers had some issues with carton "worming" which is basically the carton separating having a tunneled like effect. A term I use to explain this phenomenon. I found the sound can be affected alot as I have heard some not so good sounding units due to this. Just not a focused sound, instrument separation and weird soundstage.
It was actually Mostly fixed by the time the gold came around so golds often sound better than later reds due to no worming better paper mash glue. This is all just theory I thought out with my experiences with Tannoy which has been quite a few."


Cheers,
Jarek
STACORE
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   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  Remedies the Beauty..  Good for you, Jarek...  Playback Listening  Forum     225  80620  10-13-2021
  »  New  Macondo vs Dannoy = Essentialism vs Existentialism..  Romy Wrestles Angel...  Playback Listening  Forum     2  3401  11-14-2021
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