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  »  New  The single-stage Milq and power Supplies...  Just the tank...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     10  63229  05-03-2007
  »  New  The Milq’s power supplies and rectification...  The death the vacuum tube rectifier?...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     3  35334  07-13-2007
02-13-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 158
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 1
Post ID: 2067
Reply to: 2067
Melequiades PSU
Hi Roman
I'm slowly gathering parts to build your amp.
In my old email to you I've mentioned that I have a pair of monster transformers 310-0-310 2A .I'd like to use them as a main transformer for bi-tri amp configuration ,with input choke load and folowing separating (tree branches) chokes for each amp .Duncan amps predict my B+ as 270-280V.Will this higher B+ degrade the sound noticably?
Also did you custom order transformers for driver (bias) stage or it's a Hammond unit?
Last thing;coupling caps . I'm out of luck finding 4uF (or any) electrocubes so what else will fit the bill?
Regards, Wojtek
02-13-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 2
Post ID: 2068
Reply to: 2067
Re: Melequiades PSU

 Wojtek wrote:
In my old email to you I've mentioned that I have a pair of monster transformers 310-0-310 2A .I'd like to use them as a main transformer for bi-tri amp configuration ,with input choke load and folowing separating (tree branches) chokes for each amp .Duncan amps predict my B+ as 270-280V.Will this higher B+ degrade the sound noticably?

You will be burning the tubes at higher dissipating power, is it necessary? Sonically, I would keep the output stage at 200V-220V. HF and MF channels do not need more and if you go higher then it sound not good. The LF do not need voltage in most of the case and the dimpling would depends of your speakers, transformers and plate current. If you wish you might go for 250V at LF channel but you would need an extra secondary coil or a transformer as do so as you do not want to introduce any dropping resistor into the plate supple and rising the supply impedance.

 Wojtek wrote:
  Also did you custom order transformers for driver (bias) stage or it's a Hammond unit?

No I did not, however if you have 3 channel and drive them form one input choke than 100mA is already a more or less respectable current. Look for those stray fields…. And partially among other pieces of magnetic.

 Wojtek wrote:
  Last thing;coupling caps . I'm out of luck finding 4uF (or any) electrocubes so what else will fit the bill?

Use 2uF, 950 series.

The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-14-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 158
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 3
Post ID: 2070
Reply to: 2068
Re: Melequiades PSU
Thank You
I'll experiment with the PSU a little. The transformes have only 1 Ohm DCR
and total supply impedance for a channel would be ~ 45 Ohm (with two chokes in series) Imput choke looks like can take 1 A current!All Iron is mil quality and potted It is hard to pass iron like that and I'm poor .I may use a driver stage and build the power stage with EML 300B and KR 300BLX (15W bass only) leftowers from better times.
Speakers are 103 dB -all the bad combination Wink,Klipshorn bass bins,
204 hz front tantrix (le cleach flare) with "yellow" driver and Jensen RP-103 tweet. At least I'm spared to look for those DPOLs points,lol.
Regards, W
02-14-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 4
Post ID: 2072
Reply to: 2070
I don't understand what you do

 Wojtek wrote:
I'll experiment with the PSU a little. The transformes have only 1 Ohm DCR
and total supply impedance for a channel would be ~ 45 Ohm (with two chokes in series) Imput choke looks like can take 1 A current!

Be carefully with the input choke that rated for 1A current. The inductance of a choke as I understand is rated for a nominal current. If you choke is 10H for instance at 1A and you will be driving it with 200mA then you might dive belong the critical inductance and it all will be worthless.

 Wojtek wrote:
All Iron is mil quality and potted It is hard to pass iron like that and I'm poor .I may use a driver stage and build the power stage with EML 300B and KR 300BLX (15W bass only) leftowers from better times.

I don't quite understand what you do but if you are on budget and would like to "spill a little blood" then why you are tiring to build 3 channels of Melquiades? First of all the line lever crossovering might be quite complex. Second, what if it turns out that I am full of shit and Melquiades does not sound good? Would it be easer to build one properly operating Milq and then, if you understand and upreciate the result, to propagate the same sound across 3 channel? It is what I would do if I were you.

The caT


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-14-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
AnonymousUser
Posts 19
Joined on 11-27-2004

Post #: 5
Post ID: 2075
Reply to: 2072
Re: I don't understand what you do
Roman
The main point is that I like the Bass SET aproach with LF capable transformers and have a potent SET to properly drive whole band and take the amp out of equasion in the future when I learn how to build horn speakers. The system I have is an accidental compromise ,my first horn cut but I can't say I don't enjoy it. I do ,that's why I'm reading this site.If your amp sucks , well I made worst mistakes and I will still have the transformers to make something else.I heard enough syrupy sounding or "extatic" SET's on the shows ,time to try something else. As to PS supply you're right. I was going to use tri-amp to have flexiblity of using speaker drivers in the future and run lots of current trough PS to stay above criticall inductance. PSU would be separate unit (I coludn't lift it otherway).Line level crossing or passive speaker level crossovers-same devil.Regards,W
02-14-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 6
Post ID: 2076
Reply to: 2075
The shameless commerce division.

 AnonymousUser wrote:
Line level crossing or passive speaker level crossovers-same devil.

If you are planning to build a dedicated LF SET then the line level crossing vs. passive speaker level crossovers is not the same devil. With any seriously performing LF section any cap, indictor or resistor you put in the game after the transformer will very severally screw up dumping of the drivers and essentially the quality of bass. If you go line level then be advised that Melquiades is no-feedback and therefore there is not ways to put a line level filter in there without insertion lost. The 6C33C is kind of 8-10W tube and with 2-3 db of insertion lost you would need a fairly sensitive drivers, or preferably an array of the driver is you use horns.  To make it all properly it would not be cheap and easy solution.

Anyhow, if you build a dedicated LF Melquiades then if you wish I might sell you a pair of my leftover transformers. It is 6C33C against 8ohm, 1:8, 450mA gap, ~15H primary and I believe 23R DCR of secondary. The transformer at 220V/170mA on plate push full power down to 7.5Hz and roles off atop at ~900Hz. It is quite big and heavy to ship and it will be $400 per pair + shipping. I do not need this transformer as I have the identical against 5Ohm that is more precise match for my woofer towers.

Rgs,
Romy


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-16-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 158
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 7
Post ID: 2090
Reply to: 2076
Re: The shameless commerce division.
Roman,
Shameless or not I will consider your offer once I'll get the quote from my local winder.
Thank You. W
02-16-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Romy the Cat


Boston, MA
Posts 9,534
Joined on 05-27-2004

Post #: 8
Post ID: 2092
Reply to: 2090
Do not built LF Melequiades.

W,

Be careful with Milq’s LF channel. When you go for a dedicated LF SET and make the SET to operate very low then you need very precisely dial in the loading of your out tube with the behavior of your LF drivers/enclosure. Without know the very specific loading demands I would not suggest you to commit yourself to buy my transformer or to order a transformer form you local winder. The LF SET is not a full range amp and the result will vary much much more then with a MF channel.

Actually, to be honest, I do not feel that you ever need a LF DSET (dedicated SET). Since you use Klipshorn bass bins and if you make the LF Milq with a transformer >7-8H then you will overload the Klipshorn LF. What is the purpose to build a LF DSET and then roll of the LF with a high pass filter. So, if you wish to built a Melequiades then get yours a regular full range Melequiades and it will be much better then forcing a poor Klipshorn to reproduce the LF the they even theoretically can’t handle and that screw up the Klipshorn’s upperbass.

Rgs,
The Cat


"I wish I could score everything for horns." - Richard Wagner. "Our writing equipment takes part in the forming of our thoughts." - Friedrich Nietzsche
02-17-2006 Post does not mapped to Knowledge Tree
Wojtek
Pinckney (MI), United States
Posts 158
Joined on 09-01-2005

Post #: 9
Post ID: 2093
Reply to: 2092
Re: Do not built LF Melequiades.
Good points Roman. Thanks!!. I already decided that I'll build dual channel amp with those "crappy 300b's"(as I already spent my winter shoes and vacations on them) tubes and full range Melquiades when funds allow. Did you say "mid-bass" in the context of Klipschorn ??I thought that only "strenght" of Klipshorn is upper- bass with a little LF contamination.( which is OK in my L-shaped room with listenning space 10' corner to corner) and mid-bass is mushy and bloated.
Page 1 of 1 (9 items) Select Pages: 
   Target    Threads for related reading   Most recent post in related threads   Forum  Replies   Views   Started 
  »  New  The single-stage Milq and power Supplies...  Just the tank...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     10  63229  05-03-2007
  »  New  The Milq’s power supplies and rectification...  The death the vacuum tube rectifier?...  Melquiades Amplifier  Forum     3  35334  07-13-2007
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